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I think the problem isn't so much religion but rather fanaticism of all kinds. Fanatical anti-theism is just as dangerous as fanatical religiosity. Look at what the Chinese are doing to the Falun Gong and Tibetans, and what the Soviet Union did to countless religious groups. It was just as bad as what the Taliban do and what the Nazis did.
According to Wikipedia the theory that religion and science have been perpetually at odds with each other is generally no longer accepted among historians of science. I think it's a populist meme, like the false belief that the world is still growing exponentially more populated.
And by the way, I'm agnostic, I'm not a religious person. It just annoys me when people say 'religion is the cause of war' and stuff like that, because for one it's wrong and another I half get the feeling people say that because they think it makes them sound 'cool'.
Last edited by callmemaybe; 08-04-2012 at 12:36 PM..
I think the problem isn't so much religion but rather fanaticism of all kinds. Fanatical anti-theism is just as dangerous as fanatical religiosity. Look at what the Chinese are doing to the Falun Gong and Tibetans, and what the Soviet Union did to countless religious groups. It was just as bad as what the Taliban do and what the Nazis did.
According to Wikipedia the theory that religion and science have been perpetually at odds with each other is generally no longer accepted among historians of science. I think it's a populist meme, like the false belief that the world is still growing exponentially more populated.
Yes, you bring up a good point that I forgot to mention in my anti-radicalism post. Radical atheism is just as bad as radical Islam and radical Christianity.
Extreme religious views certainly do hold back development - absolutely no question about that.
If those people had been in charge of America for the last 200 years, I have no doubt that black people would still be owned like dogs and women would not be voting.
Hey ambient, without Christians, many of the Quakers, there would have been no Abolition or Suffrage Movements.
In fact, were it not for Christian organizations, there would have been no Civil Rights Movement.
Christians have always fought for the rights of the individual and the only reason leftists are at odds with them today is because it is liberals working to deny rights to others.
Hey ambient, without Christians, many of the Quakers, there would have been no Abolition or Suffrage Movements.
In fact, were it not for Christian organizations, there would have been no Civil Rights Movement.
Christians have always fought for the rights of the individual and the only reason leftists are at odds with them today is because it is liberals working to deny rights to others.
Except the Quakers didn't want to impose their religion within the government. And if Christians have always fought for the rights of the individual why were slave owners Christians? Why were Christians in the KKK? Why are Christians currently fighting gay marriage (a losing battle mind you)? For the first two, you might try to use a "no true Scotsman" argument, but those won't fly with me. When you use the word "always", you're bound to lose. As for the last one, you agree with it I believe. So in that case, explain to me how Christians are fighting for the rights of the individual?
Except those two countries aren't oppressing their people in the name of atheism. And NK hardly promotes atheism. It promotes the cult of the Dear Leader, which you could say is the de facto religion.
The Islamic Republics do oppress based on their religion.
That damned Wilders is a Christian so I guess these people here will say that he does not have a right to freedom of speech. I love the man and not for his religious beliefs.
So you think Sweden is uncivilized? And Mexico is civilized? How about Somalia? Guess which one of those three is the most stable? Sweden. And guess which one is the least religious? Sweden.
False cause fallacy - you had better take a good look at the respective histories of those three(well two) nations - (I hesitate to call Somalia a nation...but check out the history there as well) before drawing blanket conclusions about their stability and the underpinnings of such.
Religion is what holds this country back from progress on things such as liberalization of laws and getting the government out of people's personnel lives.
For example in many countries with less religious people, such as netherlands, denmark and sweden more civil liberties are permitted.
Places such as Iran, Saudi Arabia and Israel do not.
The conservative right here toots the morality card but their hypocrisy is easily seen by the intelligent class in this country who wishes to be more secular.
Why search for an educated hypothesis or conclusion, when you can just say "God did it....also he hates gays derp derp derp."
For the record Adolf Hitler was a Catholic, the most atheist countries are in western Europe.
The claims about China and NK being typical atheist societies is laughable. I can counter that just is easily with examples from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Somalia, Uganda, DRK and many other countries with high religious beliefs.
Religion is indoctrinated at birth and is a cancer. Think about it, you are taught to believe in a sky fairy and take it seriously. Do you have any idea how ****ing stupid that sounds...
Religion is not some magical thing that was created out of thin air one day. Religion is a product of society just as much as a creator. You religion haters have a very simpleminded way of looking at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stateisota
The claims about China and NK being typical atheist societies is laughable. I can counter that just is easily with examples from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Somalia, Uganda, DRK and many other countries with high religious beliefs.
And he can counter that with... China and NK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stateisota
Religion is indoctrinated at birth and is a cancer. Think about it, you are taught to believe in a sky fairy and take it seriously. Do you have any idea how ****ing stupid that sounds...
Plenty of people believe stupid things. It's dogma, not religion. Moonbat leftists have their own unquestionable beliefs too. The problem is emotional BS as opposed to logic and reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELR123
So you think Sweden is uncivilized? And Mexico is civilized? How about Somalia? Guess which one of those three is the most stable? Sweden. And guess which one is the least religious? Sweden.
That's not an argument, that's 3 examples. You need to draw out some type of causal analysis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELR123
At least in the US, the most extreme people get with religion is the WBC. In the Middle East, you get terrorist organizations.
The abolition of Islam in the middle east would not result in any kind of utopia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient
Many of the slave owners were highly religious. And they used their religion as a justification for their actions.
So religion was merely a justification, not a cause, right?
My point exactly. Unless it is your contention that had these people not been religious, they would have shunned slavery. Which sounds a bit backwards to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELR123
Except those two countries aren't oppressing their people in the name of atheism. And NK hardly promotes atheism. It promotes the cult of the Dear Leader, which you could say is the de facto religion.
You're redefining religion.
What you have in NK is not religion. It is more than religion in some aspects and less than religion in some.
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