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Old 08-05-2012, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
14,100 posts, read 28,554,725 times
Reputation: 8075

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The original bill was well written. However I believe it was written this way in the hopes that Republicans would vote to pass it along with the spending amendments they tacked on for social programs. Why can't congress (both parties) make a good bill and leave the pork out of the bill? Is that too much to ask?
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:48 AM
 
27,170 posts, read 15,352,042 times
Reputation: 12086
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
well, I do notice that democrat senators do like to always veto bills meant for auditing the federal reserve. some senators have pet projects and some dont.


Yeah, how about that?
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Old 08-05-2012, 02:51 AM
 
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,467,170 times
Reputation: 6670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arus View Post
innovation and automation is killing the job market. not outsourcing.

As technology improves, automation is replacing a human worker.

Machines can make our clothes now.

Machines can now fully build a car.

Machines can make our products; what used to take 10 people to design, something, now requires 1/3 rd the staff.
Funny how American corporations have to outsource jobs, while technologically "unsophisticated" countries like Germany and Japan go out of their way to protect their workers... and still make money!

U.S. scraps what Germany protects

Japan: Automation Nation? Why the world's most efficient economy still employs lots gas station attendants and elevator operators.
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:30 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,273,228 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
Amazing how Republicans can have their constituents bend logic to justify supporting a party that is behind both broken government and the outsourcing of American jobs.

The Dumbing Down rolls on....
I noted I supported this bill but let's look at the facts here. This was something Obama ran on and we heard nothing about it until we came to a point where Obama and Reid both know that nothing is going to get done in Congress until after the elections.

Why was this not brought up 2 or 3 years ago? Why was it not a part of negotiations on the budget extensions?

It's because this is not a serious attempt at changing anything. It's simple politics. It's why we should not be voting for either party come November.
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:32 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,273,228 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailordave View Post
The original bill was well written. However I believe it was written this way in the hopes that Republicans would vote to pass it along with the spending amendments they tacked on for social programs. Why can't congress (both parties) make a good bill and leave the pork out of the bill? Is that too much to ask?
Yep. The bill is dead so I didn't bother taking time looking it up but indeed the amendments along with what I noted above killed it.

Why is it that the bill itself can't simply be voted on? Because it then might actually pass?
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Old 08-05-2012, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado
1,976 posts, read 2,355,570 times
Reputation: 1769
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
Last month, 42 Senators blocked Senate Bill S-3364, which would ban tax deductions for expenses of moving workers or operations overseas from the U.S. The bill also would allow a tax deduction for companies returning jobs to the US from overseas.

Now thanks to these Senators, we all continue to actually pay to send our jobs overseas. For a list of the senators (BTW, primarily in one party), see U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

Seems like foreign outsourcing should actually be our most important priority right now, more than even unemployment, the deficit, illegals, whatever. Because if jobs are indeed the basic "lifeblood" of our economy, than what are we doing to ourselves by constantly "donating" that blood (or "hemorrhaging" it, as the case may be)...?

After November when the Democrats have more of a majority in the Senate, we can get this passed.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Reeds Spring, MO
974 posts, read 1,588,652 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by artisan4 View Post
After November when the Democrats have more of a majority in the Senate, we can get this passed.

Yeah because they did so much when they had a majority in both sections of Congress. Give it up, it is not a Dem/Rep thing. It is a politician thing. Both parties are seriously broken and have been for quite some time.
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:44 AM
 
15,101 posts, read 8,655,002 times
Reputation: 7454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
So?

America cannot compete in the Global Economy, due to the fact that American workers are grotesquely over-paid.

Mircea
This is the only portion of that nonsense that I feel compelled to respond to.

"Grotesquely over-paid" American workers ... aye? You ought to hang your head in shame. The effective wages of the American worker are lower now than in the 1950's, when those workers helped build these corporations that turned around and cut America's throat.

You think Americans ought to be quartered in a factory/dormitory, complete with suicide netting around the outside of the building .... paid $9 a day, and fed rice and fish heads, so that Nike CEO can pay himself a 20 Million bonus? What we have going on here is a return to feudalism and serfdom, and not only is it killing America, but this model supports 21st century global slavery.

Back in the 50's, we had a 1 income family structure, and that 1 income was able to support a family of 4, buy a house, take a vacation, and ultimately retire with a reasonable retirement income. That was slowly converted to a 2 income structure, with the economics molding itself to that level of increased income (read: prices rose to capture that income). And now the 2 income family are struggling to keep up due to inflation from this wholesale looting of the economy and the tripling of the money support over the past few years alone (with every penny of it stolen).

Let me give you some real startling figures .... just in the last 35 years, since 1978, Corporate executive pay has risen 726%, compared to the rank-and-file employee compensation increase of 5.7%, meaning that we've lost almost half of our purchasing power due to inflation, which has at least caused an effective doubling of costs of living with a net of only 5.7% real gain.

Crazy data point of the day: How much CEO pay vs. worker pay has grown - Post Leadership - The Washington Post

In 1980, the average CEO made 42 times (compare that to the 1950's when that number was about 5 times) the amount that the average worker earned ... now, it's 380 times. The typical worker today would have to work over 5,000 years to earn what the typical executive makes. In fact, the CEO pay over the last 35 years has more than doubled the S&P 500 stock index !! And we're just talking about the CEO's now ... take all of the executive management of the average corporation which is top heavy with CFOs, CIOs, Board of Directors, and upper level management, and the picture is clear .... jobs have gone away due to insatiable, grotesque greed, not grotesque worker wages.

And did the average consumer gain anything from "globalization"? Hell no .... just loss of more jobs. So, that $130 pair of Nike sneakers (that cost Nike $4 to manufacture in Indonesia or China, paying the worker about $.75/hour) can net Nike a $120 net profit, rather than have poor Nike try to struggle by with a $105 net profit if forced to pay an American worker a livable wage? God, how could we expect them to get by on a 2000% margin?

Next time you have such thoughts ... think again.



Who is "grotesquely over-paid" again?
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Old 08-05-2012, 09:52 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,752,438 times
Reputation: 22474
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Thanks. Reading through not real close and considering how they write these laws, I can find nothing that would make it offensive and I would support it.
It looks to me like they want another kind of corporate welfare. Have the government pay the expenses.

Why not just get a tax on imports like we once had?
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:00 AM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,505,785 times
Reputation: 911
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
This is the only portion of that nonsense that I feel compelled to respond to.

"Grotesquely over-paid" American workers ... aye? You ought to hang your head in shame. The effective wages of the American worker are lower now than in the 1950's, when those workers helped build these corporations that turned around and cut America's throat.

You think Americans ought to be quartered in a factory/dormitory, complete with suicide netting around the outside of the building .... paid $9 a day, and fed rice and fish heads, so that Nike CEO can pay himself a 20 Million bonus? What we have going on here is a return to feudalism and serfdom, and not only is it killing America, but this model supports 21st century global slavery.

Back in the 50's, we had a 1 income family structure, and that 1 income was able to support a family of 4, buy a house, take a vacation, and ultimately retire with a reasonable retirement income. That was slowly converted to a 2 income structure, with the economics molding itself to that level of increased income (read: prices rose to capture that income). And now the 2 income family are struggling to keep up due to inflation from this wholesale looting of the economy and the tripling of the money support over the past few years alone (with every penny of it stolen).

Let me give you some real startling figures .... just in the last 35 years, since 1978, Corporate executive pay has risen 726%, compared to the rank-and-file employee compensation increase of 5.7%, meaning that we've lost almost half of our purchasing power due to inflation, which has at least caused an effective doubling of costs of living with a net of only 5.7% real gain.

Crazy data point of the day: How much CEO pay vs. worker pay has grown - Post Leadership - The Washington Post

In 1980, the average CEO made 42 times (compare that to the 1950's when that number was about 5 times) the amount that the average worker earned ... now, it's 380 times. The typical worker today would have to work over 5,000 years to earn what the typical executive makes. In fact, the CEO pay over the last 35 years has more than doubled the S&P 500 stock index !! And we're just talking about the CEO's now ... take all of the executive management of the average corporation which is top heavy with CFOs, CIOs, Board of Directors, and upper level management, and the picture is clear .... jobs have gone away due to insatiable, grotesque greed, not grotesque worker wages.

And did the average consumer gain anything from "globalization"? Hell no .... just loss of more jobs. So, that $130 pair of Nike sneakers (that cost Nike $4 to manufacture in Indonesia or China, paying the worker about $.75/hour) can net Nike a $120 net profit, rather than have poor Nike try to struggle by with a $105 net profit if forced to pay an American worker a livable wage? God, how could we expect them to get by on a 2000% margin?

Next time you have such thoughts ... think again.



Who is "grotesquely over-paid" again?
I keep forgetting about those numbers, GNT, and it's perhaps the greatest reminder of how screwed-up our economy is. Executives keep making more and more, while the consumers make less and less. That greedy behavior is unsustainable and destructive--but "they've got theirs," so why care about everyone else?
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