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Old 08-07-2012, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,881,188 times
Reputation: 4512

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By "tie" I mean "winning the hearts and minds" of the issue, not legality:

On gay marriage, social conservatives will ultimately lose. Simply put, there is no legal basis for not allowing homosexual couples to enter the same legal contract, and all included rights, as a straight couple. Furthermore, the Bible is explicitly clear on the authority of the state and its power over temporal matters: "“Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus detected their trickery and said to them, “Show Me a denarius. Whose likeness and inscription does it have?” They said, “Caesar’s.”And Jesus said to them, “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”


On the other hand, I see support for abortion slipping away. The pro-choicers have already lost the moral and ethical premise for abortion. Will abortion ever become illegal? Probably not, but has abortion won the hearts and minds of people, no not really. Many might try to dismiss it as not being human life, but they are only fooling themselves, IMO in thinking that to justify their beliefs. Does that mean the public will come around to forced ultrasounds and the like? Probably not. But this is a procedure that harms both the mother and the child. My hope is we as a society do the right thing and people come around to contraception (prevent pregnancy) and support adoption.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,594,070 times
Reputation: 1552
Same-sex "marriage" today is where abortion was 40 years ago. Social conservatives were losing on abortion back then, and by the 1990s the pro-life cause seemed hopeless. But decades of pro-life work, advances in medical technology, and the personal devastation of abortion have combined to turn the tide.

Possibly it will take a generation or two of pro-family activism - and several decades of bitter experience with the diseased fruit of homosexuality - for public opinion to return to its senses on same-sex "marriage" as well.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,902,306 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
By "tie" I mean "winning the hearts and minds" of the issue, not legality:

On gay marriage, social conservatives will ultimately lose. Simply put, there is no legal basis for not allowing homosexual couples to enter the same legal contract, and all included rights, as a straight couple. Furthermore, the Bible is explicitly clear on the authority of the state and its power over temporal matters: "“Is it lawful for us to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus detected their trickery and said to them, “Show Me a denarius. Whose likeness and inscription does it have?” They said, “Caesar’s.”And Jesus said to them, “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”


On the other hand, I see support for abortion slipping away. The pro-choicers have already lost the moral and ethical premise for abortion. Will abortion ever become illegal? Probably not, but has abortion won the hearts and minds of people, no not really. Many might try to dismiss it as not being human life, but they are only fooling themselves, IMO in thinking that to justify their beliefs. Does that mean the public will come around to forced ultrasounds and the like? Probably not. But this is a procedure that harms both the mother and the child. My hope is we as a society do the right thing and people come around to contraception (prevent pregnancy) and support adoption.
I disagree in part. On gay marriage, it will come and it will come a the Federal Level. On abortion, it will remain Legal, you forget that there are more women voters than men and when it comes down to it it is a womens rights issue and most women want the right to make their own choices.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:15 PM
 
15,913 posts, read 20,157,064 times
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When everyone is gay there will be no need of abortion laws, there will be no fetuses....
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Middle of nowhere
24,260 posts, read 14,165,148 times
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Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
When everyone is gay there will be no need of abortion laws, there will be no fetuses....
Are you anticipating everyone turning gay?
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Vermont
11,754 posts, read 14,611,102 times
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I think you're certainly correct on the same-sex marriage issue. For younger people it just isn't an issue, and the cutoff age for people who oppose it is going up all the time.

I don't think you're right on the family autonomy issue, and your tying in of contraception and abortion makes that clear. If I deduce your position accurately, you are one of the few who oppose abortion rights and support contraception rights. The most rabid, and therefore most committed, antiabortion advocates are also rabidly anti-contraception, which is also the governing ideology of the Catholic church. They see progressive abortion bans as simply one step in that direction, and they won't stop until they get it.

Nobody is pro-abortion. Millions of us are in favor of abortion rights, and that will not change. The most effective thing that abortion opponents could do to reduce the number of abortions is to support widespread and accurate sex education and contraception availability in the schools, but they will not do that.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:27 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,421 posts, read 20,258,541 times
Reputation: 8958
Default Very well said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Same-sex "marriage" today is where abortion was 40 years ago. Social conservatives were losing on abortion back then, and by the 1990s the pro-life cause seemed hopeless. But decades of pro-life work, advances in medical technology, and the personal devastation of abortion have combined to turn the tide.

Possibly it will take a generation or two of pro-family activism - and several decades of bitter experience with the diseased fruit of homosexuality - for public opinion to return to its senses on same-sex "marriage" as well.
Excellent.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,567,116 times
Reputation: 9675
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Same-sex "marriage" today is where abortion was 40 years ago. Social conservatives were losing on abortion back then, and by the 1990s the pro-life cause seemed hopeless. But decades of pro-life work, advances in medical technology, and the personal devastation of abortion have combined to turn the tide.

Possibly it will take a generation or two of pro-family activism - and several decades of bitter experience with the diseased fruit of homosexuality - for public opinion to return to its senses on same-sex "marriage" as well.
There will, no doubt, have to be a lot more hating and scapegoating of homosexuals for the ills of society than what is going on now for that to happen.
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:05 PM
 
78,013 posts, read 60,221,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjrose View Post
Are you anticipating everyone turning gay?
Didn't you know that was what is in the chemtrails?
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:11 PM
 
26,680 posts, read 28,624,812 times
Reputation: 7943
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Same-sex "marriage" today is where abortion was 40 years ago. Social conservatives were losing on abortion back then, and by the 1990s the pro-life cause seemed hopeless. But decades of pro-life work, advances in medical technology, and the personal devastation of abortion have combined to turn the tide.

Possibly it will take a generation or two of pro-family activism - and several decades of bitter experience with the diseased fruit of homosexuality - for public opinion to return to its senses on same-sex "marriage" as well.
These are two very different issues. Acceptance of homosexuality has been increasing for decades. I can't think of any good reasons to not allow same-sex couples to marry. It doesn't affect me at all. I only see good things coming out of it.

On the other hand, the life of a fetus/baby is a much more contentious matter.
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