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Old 10-04-2007, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,203 posts, read 27,069,843 times
Reputation: 3946

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I am these days just a tourist; never learned how to do more than fly a small plane, and no license to build or fly today.


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Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
Only if one travels there a lot as a tourist. But if one were employed by a company exporting something to Europe -- say, Boeing 787s -- one would be doing pretty well.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,262,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
I am these days just a tourist; never learned how to do more than fly a small plane, and no license to build or fly today.
Ah, that's okay. Lots of little dollars are pretty much the same as a few big ones.
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:49 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,158,628 times
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Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
While everything you said is worthy of comment, I'll respond to this below.

My original comment really was about a more global concern than the Vietnamese. It is a group of players, all of whom have reasons, some of which you enumerated, to form a compact with one another.

Without revealing too much about my own history, I do know that in the 60s more was involved in the Cuban-US story than ever reached the public, and has still not reached it. All of the dealings were covered up in party hats, not diplomacy, no major public meetings, etc.

I suppose because I had this tangential relationship then that I question now.
Well there is no doubt that there is an endless list of players and the interaction of industry and governments only adds to this.

I think back to my first reading of Air America and thinking to myself, what brilliance there is in having so many avenues that the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing of course there is also the great danger it can present when the accountability issue might arise. The whole, plausible deniability gig.

I recall reading a bit a good while back that talked about the set up that was put into place in order to keep the stock market from ever going into a free fall as it did back in 29, and I to this day still have to wonder, just how much of this, with all the layers there are, can be manipulated or tweaked if any at all.

The illusion of control or freedom is often every bit as powerful and tangible as the real deal.
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Old 10-04-2007, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,203 posts, read 27,069,843 times
Reputation: 3946
Two noteworthy sentences.

Yes, industry and government are aligned in many ways as evidenced by corporate giving, and unacknowledged relationships between the two.

Illusion can be magic to some, tricks to another and beautiful to a third, but ultimately, illusion is not real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Well there is no doubt that there is an endless list of players and the interaction of industry and governments only adds to this.


The illusion of control or freedom is often every bit as powerful and tangible as the real deal.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:00 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,158,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
Two noteworthy sentences.

Yes, industry and government are aligned in many ways as evidenced by corporate giving, and unacknowledged relationships between the two.

Illusion can be magic to some, tricks to another and beautiful to a third, but ultimately, illusion is not real.
While illusion is not real, the use of it is quite real and so are the effects of its use. Gulf of Tokin, operation Northwoods, and lord only knows how many others. I would bet dollars for donuts that things such as stock markets, commodities and economic issues in particular are quite susceptible to this.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,203 posts, read 27,069,843 times
Reputation: 3946
I have no doubt that illusion is applied; it is its veracity I question.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
While illusion is not real, the use of it is quite real and so are the effects of its use. Gulf of Tokin, operation Northwoods, and lord only knows how many others. I would bet dollars for donuts that things such as stock markets, commodities and economic issues in particular are quite susceptible to this.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:11 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,158,628 times
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Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
I have no doubt that illusion is applied; it is its veracity I question.
Well being it is obviously a tool to use for various purposes, some for the better some not, I am absolutely sure its use is not only prevalent yet subtle, but would probably astound most people.

What amazes me is that not that it may be used so often but that its use is so easily disguised. It is usually only at a later date do we find out the truth of the matter as I noted in my previous post. What would have been the reaction of the American people if the entire population was aware of the Northwoods operation?

The whole group think acceptance vs individual skepticism and the interaction of the two, is a rather fascinating subject in itself.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,203 posts, read 27,069,843 times
Reputation: 3946
No doubt fascinating, and probably inbred. One leader, one master, many peons, too many slaves.

We are reared not to think, and many accept that thinking gives them a headache. Then after an aspirin they turn on the telly, and get the answers to all those questions they neglected looking at all day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Well being it is obviously a tool to use for various purposes, some for the better some not, I am absolutely sure its use is not only prevalent yet subtle, but would probably astound most people.

What amazes me is that not that it may be used so often but that its use is so easily disguised. It is usually only at a later date do we find out the truth of the matter as I noted in my previous post. What would have been the reaction of the American people if the entire population was aware of the Northwoods operation?

The whole group think acceptance vs individual skepticism and the interaction of the two, is a rather fascinating subject in itself.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,203 posts, read 27,069,843 times
Reputation: 3946
BTW, THt, do you watch Jon Stewart?

He did an interview with the Hardball guy on his new book. It covers some of this divergent thinking. Stewart compared it, Hardball's book, to Machiavellian thinking, the great Prince of Darkness.
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Old 10-04-2007, 08:20 PM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,158,628 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
No doubt fascinating, and probably inbred. One leader, one master, many peons, too many slaves.

We are reared not to think, and many accept that thinking gives them a headache. Then after an aspirin they turn on the telly, and get the answers to all those questions they neglected looking at all day.
I will take the curse of curiosity over the blessings of conformity any day, no matter how much sleep it may cause me to miss.

There was a time in human history when it was a noble profession to gather and ponder possibilities.

"My suggestion to you young man is to get married, if you find a good wife you will be happy, if not you will become a philosopher" -Socrates
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