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View Poll Results: Why is the U.S. such a violent nation?
black on black crime 51 19.62%
Gov't has failed to adequately provide the less fortunate with the resources needed to succeed 56 21.54%
lack of police funding / laws not enforced strongly enough 33 12.69%
violent culture glorified by Hollywood, rap music and/or and popular culture in general 98 37.69%
I don't believe the U.S. is a violent nation. 54 20.77%
Other please explain 49 18.85%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-07-2007, 01:03 AM
rah
 
Location: Oakland
3,314 posts, read 9,199,221 times
Reputation: 2538

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepejeep View Post
OK number one: No one has been killed in the US since the 30's with an AUTOMATIC weapon! NO ONE! There's a big difference between an automatic weapon and a SEMI auto! Please know what you're talking about before you speak. The MSM loves to use words like automatic and assault weapon without knowing at all the difference between guns that look like full auto weapond and those that rtuly are. Secondly how in hell can you say no one is trying to take away our guns when there has been gun confications in NJ, California and New Orleans? Plus, this quote by one of the worst gun grabbers says it all:
"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it."
-Senator Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif, discussing the 1994 "crime bill", one of the largest gun control bills of the last 30 years.

Now tell me not to worry about my guns!
Uhh, you're wrong. There are tons of automatic weapons going around. Sure, alot of semi's converted to full auto, but others full auto to begin with. You can get anything...If you want, I'll scrounge up a few news stories for you. An SF cop was killed by a gangbanger with an AK-47 in 2004. A couple cops in another Bay Area city were killed by a guy with an SKS converted to full auto a couple years ago too.

My friend used to jack dealers, and him and his partner always kept a mac-10 in the glove compartment. And I've heard automatic gunfire at night before...the trigger man must have had some kind of robotic finger to squeeze that many shots off that fast in semi-auto...
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Old 10-07-2007, 02:25 AM
 
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania
18 posts, read 44,907 times
Reputation: 16
It is not violent at all..
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Old 10-07-2007, 08:51 AM
 
Location: NY
2,011 posts, read 3,861,317 times
Reputation: 918
Quote:
Originally Posted by rah View Post
Uhh, you're wrong. There are tons of automatic weapons going around. Sure, alot of semi's converted to full auto, but others full auto to begin with. You can get anything...If you want, I'll scrounge up a few news stories for you. An SF cop was killed by a gangbanger with an AK-47 in 2004. A couple cops in another Bay Area city were killed by a guy with an SKS converted to full auto a couple years ago too.

My friend used to jack dealers, and him and his partner always kept a mac-10 in the glove compartment. And I've heard automatic gunfire at night before...the trigger man must have had some kind of robotic finger to squeeze that many shots off that fast in semi-auto...
Yeah, I'll need real positive proof because as far as I can acertain, no police officer has ever been shot with a full auto since they were strictly regulated in the 30,s. There are states where full auto weapons are totally legal They're called "class 3" states. You have to get a VERY expensive license and not one person who has gotten one has been arrested for a firearms charge or lost his license because of breaking the law. Legal gun owners are the most law-abiding people there are. THAT is stone fact!
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Old 10-07-2007, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Sheffield, England
2,636 posts, read 6,629,012 times
Reputation: 3336
I'm surprised that the ease with which one can gain access to a personal firearm isn't on the list. In most countries firearms are VERY strictly regulated whereas in the US it seems as though they're almost giving them away. Look at Vegas for example. You can just walk into a pawn shop virtually anywhere in town, flash your permit and walk out with a fully functioning firearm. And we're not just talking pistols here, you've got all sorts. Pump-action shotguns, automatic rifles, submachine guns. You name it and you can probably get hold of one at a pawn shop. And they wonder why the crime rates are high there. In my opinion that is the main reason America is such a violent country.
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Old 10-07-2007, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,134,044 times
Reputation: 6549
It has become acceptable to blame others for your own failings.
I molested that boy because I was molested.
I killed the other drug dealer because I grew up poor.
My father never hugged me
My mother was mean to me
I never got picked to play sports
We put way to much credibility into the shrinks words.
We need to look at the crime.. Period... Look at the facts of the crime.. Period..
The childhood has no relevence unless the victim had a history with the offender.
Then pass the sentence and carry it out... No hand holding, no tears of sympathy for a good boy gone bad.. He is a bad boy end of statement.
Prisons should be hard time,forced labor, no thrills no frills when not working lock them down.
These are animals who do not care about john Q public and never will. Thats why they do what they do.
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Old 10-07-2007, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,134,044 times
Reputation: 6549
Quote:
Originally Posted by boycew02 View Post
I'm surprised that the ease with which one can gain access to a personal firearm isn't on the list. In most countries firearms are VERY strictly regulated whereas in the US it seems as though they're almost giving them away. Look at Vegas for example. You can just walk into a pawn shop virtually anywhere in town, flash your permit and walk out with a fully functioning firearm. And we're not just talking pistols here, you've got all sorts. Pump-action shotguns, automatic rifles, submachine guns. You name it and you can probably get hold of one at a pawn shop. And they wonder why the crime rates are high there. In my opinion that is the main reason America is such a violent country.
Its not the legal guns... Most violent crimes are committed with weapons purchased illegally. This is fact.
Automatic weapons? Submachine guns? only in the movies. If people have full auto's guess what? They were purchased illegally.
Washington DC has outlawed guns and it is the most violent city in america.
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Old 10-07-2007, 10:00 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,505,496 times
Reputation: 3019
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
It has become acceptable to blame others for your own failings.
I molested that boy because I was molested.
I killed the other drug dealer because I grew up poor.
My father never hugged me
My mother was mean to me
I never got picked to play sports
We put way to much credibility into the shrinks words.
We need to look at the crime.. Period... Look at the facts of the crime.. Period..
The childhood has no relevence unless the victim had a history with the offender.
Then pass the sentence and carry it out... No hand holding, no tears of sympathy for a good boy gone bad.. He is a bad boy end of statement.
Prisons should be hard time,forced labor, no thrills no frills when not working lock them down.
These are animals who do not care about john Q public and never will. Thats why they do what they do.
It's very true that misplaced sympathy does have a corrosive effect on social order. Spoiled, indulged "bad boys", whether in childhood or adult life, usually turn out to be "rotten" people.

The problem is, would we ever be able to turn back into a harsher, more no-nonsense type of legal system? I myself frequently feel sympathy for some of the worst wrong-doers--guess its just our modern sensitivity at work.

It seems to me that it would take a complete societal turn-around to get this going. Remember that most modern criminals feel no guilt about what they've done. It's dificult to see how this would work, for without moral guilt, harsher punishment would result only in a greater rage and anger in the "punished".

Fascinating topic. Once again, you're correct in the fact that too much "niceness" and appeasement, in ANY arena, usually causes only more resentment than ever.
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:59 AM
 
4,512 posts, read 4,058,387 times
Reputation: 2239
I truly believe the lack of class mobility, large amount of poverty create the hopelessness and futility which lead to a high crime rate. Parents are working more hours and odder hours than ever, creating latchkey children and a lack of community. Our tax system does need to be restructured, but in a way that fixes the failings of the free market. A completely free market will inevitably lead to wealth getting concentrated in the hands of a few people and rarely changing hands. The deregulation that Bush has created for the economy over the past 6.5 years has only lead to an increase in poverty and the gap between rich and poor increasing.
I also believe we lack the sense of community and are continuously paranoid of even our neighbors. If you are reading this, ask yourself "How many of my neighbors have I talked to in the past week? The past month?" I personally moved into a new subdivision 4 months ago, and only about 4 people are out ever, all the rest hide in their houses, and we live in an area of $200,000 houses.

If we want to create a situation of no crime, we need to create a situation where people don't have a need to commit crime and they feel life is worthwhile and they have something to lose if sent to prison.

I know I sound like a liberal or socialist, and I guess I probably could be considered one. My main concern though is that this increase in poverty, creates the instability that inevitably leads to crime. Most companies which are strictly concerned about the bottom line being as large as possible will need to suppress wages in order to maximize profits for those few at the top.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying but I believe that in a country as great as ours, people should be able to work 40 hours and be able to afford to own a place to live.

"In regard to cruelties committed in the name of a free society, some are guilty, while all are responsible."

-Abraham Joshua Heschel
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Old 10-08-2007, 03:30 AM
 
9,725 posts, read 15,102,321 times
Reputation: 3346
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepejeep View Post
Don't you find it interesting that the locations with the least restrictive gun laws have the lowest violent crime rates and the locations with the strictist gun laws have the highest crime rates? Look at the Murder capital of the US, Washington DC whre there's a total ban on handguns and long guns are very restricted. Guns are NOT the problem, CRIMINALS are!! No matter what race, religion or anything else!
Los Angeles and New York City have tighter gun control laws than most of the other large cities in the country. Why do they both have a SMALLER number of people killed per 100,000 population? My chances of getting killed by a gun in Phoenix or Orlando (with hardly any gun control) are higher than getting killed in LA or NYC. Can you explain this?

I voted other on the poll, by the way. I think it's a combination of factors. I liked choice #2 but I don't think the government needs to provide everything. I think ordinary citizens should be stepping up to the plate more and providing kids with things to do other than getting in trouble.

We also have way too many guns in the hands of people who just don't need them. That's how legally purchased guns become "illegal" guns. Crooks steal them from legal owners, they use straw buyers to purchase them (particularly in states that don't limit the number of guns you can purchase in a month), and that kind of thing. Imagine how much profit you could make by buying 1000 AK-47s in Florida (where they are legal and you can purchase all you want) and sending them to California (where they are illegal and you can't buy any unless you get them illegally). There is obviously good money to be made in gun trafficking.
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Old 10-08-2007, 03:38 AM
 
9,725 posts, read 15,102,321 times
Reputation: 3346
Also, on the issue of violence --

I often wonder why we don't treat people like the Enron guys just like we treat people convicted of armed robbery. Those crooks at Enron stole MILLIONS of dollars from people and financially devasted a lot of them, yet they get treated differently in prison than Joe Blow who stole $100 in an armed robbery. The Enron guys should have been sent to the same prison as Joe Blow, the armed robber -- at least as far as I'm concerned.

I think it's disgusting that we slap white collar criminals on the hand and let them do time in minimum security facilities.
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