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View Poll Results: Why is the U.S. such a violent nation?
black on black crime 51 19.62%
Gov't has failed to adequately provide the less fortunate with the resources needed to succeed 56 21.54%
lack of police funding / laws not enforced strongly enough 33 12.69%
violent culture glorified by Hollywood, rap music and/or and popular culture in general 98 37.69%
I don't believe the U.S. is a violent nation. 54 20.77%
Other please explain 49 18.85%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 260. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-22-2008, 09:54 AM
 
5,762 posts, read 11,607,537 times
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From a criminology perspective, the problem with firearms in the US is that convicted felons are able to get them so easily, despite such behavior being illegal. And illegal possession cases are rarely prosecuted to the full extent of the law, if at all.

One of the reasons the murder rate in the US stopped declining (and started ticking back up since 2005) has been the expiration of 10-15 year violent crime sentences handed down back in the late 1980's and early 1990's. These convicted felons have absolutely no trouble obtaining new firearms with which to commit further crimes or murders.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:20 AM
 
Location: The Great State of Texas, Finally!
5,465 posts, read 12,208,939 times
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Uhm....ever lived in South Africa? Johannesburg? Yeah.....do some time there and then talk to me about America being the most violent country. You have no flippin idea.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,924,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
From a criminology perspective, the problem with firearms in the US is that convicted felons are able to get them so easily, despite such behavior being illegal. And illegal possession cases are rarely prosecuted to the full extent of the law, if at all.

One of the reasons the murder rate in the US stopped declining (and started ticking back up since 2005) has been the expiration of 10-15 year violent crime sentences handed down back in the late 1980's and early 1990's. These convicted felons have absolutely no trouble obtaining new firearms with which to commit further crimes or murders.
But having guns does not explain violence. If our people, themselves, were not violent there would be no gun ownership controversy. It would not matter.
People promoting gun ownership only wish to do so for upstanding citizens, not criminals. This may disturb you, but to me, unless a criminal has anger control issues or is mentally incapacitated and cannot make good judgements or has commited a violent or drug crime, I would not even dissallow him from owning a gun.

If we cannot stop illegal drugs from entering the country, we certainly will not stop guns from doing so. So gun laws may hinder the honest citizen without illegal connections, but crooks will always be able to get them.

To me, the heart of the problem is not guns, and we should put our resources into finding out the cause of violence, which this thread is supposed to be about.

Also, I would reiterate that half of our prisoners are there for some sort of drug involvement. That is expensive, and when they get out they are not cured, so it will happen again. I think we should consider making drugs legal, but controlled and take the profit out of it. There would probably be fewer drugs being ingested and part of the financial savings could be spent in true rehab programs.

There are too many people on the take with drugs. Police and officials have been corrupted by them. So many times, if you look at neighborhood blogs people say there are places where drug dealers hang out on a regular basis, and the person constantly reports this to the police and nothing is done. Yet the cops are out on the streets for petty infractions. When everyone is doing it, it is hard not to and the others will not trust you and want you out of the force. So, I can see no other way but to legalize.

If we did, we could cut our prison population way down. Kids would be less likely to choose a life of crime. The way to success would be more likely doing well in school and working hard.

Drugs in this country affect society as a whole and we all are paying for it.
Guns, in comparison, seem to be just a fringe issue.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:21 AM
 
5,762 posts, read 11,607,537 times
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No one claims the US is the most violent country. The claim is that the US is the most murderous developed, western country, which seems to be the case.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:25 AM
 
2,265 posts, read 3,724,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GH0ST.. View Post
i voted for #2 and #4. #2 being the main culprit. but i do believe that music and media are powerful tools, and misuse can certainly help shape a culture's already unstable shape.
You're blaming govt? At what point is it there own fault? You've got to be kidding.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:28 AM
 
Location: NYC
3,046 posts, read 2,375,220 times
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I think I would have struggled with an answer to this months ago but I've come to realize that the reason why there is so much crime and violence in america compared to other western countries is because there is such a huge division between the rich and poor in this country. Look at the minimum wage. It's $5.85 and has been in the five dollar range for about 20 years while the salaries of CEOs have been skyrocketing and the standard of living has gone thru the roof. Not to mention there isn't even a ban on guns. With the country doing nothing to combat poverty is it any wonder why so many resort to crime when there's nothing to hope for?
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:42 AM
 
2,265 posts, read 3,724,411 times
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Originally Posted by krichton View Post
I think I would have struggled with an answer to this months ago but I've come to realize that the reason why there is so much crime and violence in america compared to other western countries is because there is such a huge division between the rich and poor in this country. Look at the minimum wage. It's $5.85 and has been in the five dollar range for about 20 years while the salaries of CEOs have been skyrocketing and the standard of living has gone thru the roof. Not to mention there isn't even a ban on guns. With the country doing nothing to combat poverty is it any wonder why so many resort to crime when there's nothing to hope for?
Maybe the lower income people should do something to improve there future instead of relying on someone else?
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,922 posts, read 8,045,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
Why not the NRA? Their data is usually at least as supportable as the garbage pouring out of the Brady campaign or the gov't.

The fact is if you were even remotely correct we would all be bombarded from all sides with antigun propaganda stateing such. We arent, ever wonder why?

The fact is violent crime has gone down everywhere carry reform has been passed. The fact is DC has triple the murder rate of nearby places without gun bans that permit carry.

The fact is trying to say the antigun movement is about crime prevention or public saftey illustrates either a gross lack of comprehension of the world around you or that you just want to ban guns irrelevant of their effect on crime, which has been proven repeatedly to be virtually nonexistant.

Its ok to live in a fantasy world Mr Church, but its not ok to impose your fantasy on the rest of us.
Sorry you couldn't support the assertion.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,924,382 times
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Jobs that used to be stepping stones for the lower classes are now being held by illegals. My father had some of those jobs. My mom worked. They both also took extra part-time work and had only one child - because they wanted so desperately to better their situation. They did, and I will always be thankful for their sacrifices. The US used to be build on the backs of people like them, and offer the hope of upward mobility in exchange.

Now, we have illegals keeping salaries artificially down and taking so many of those jobs. Sure, I resent that. On top of that, if a job can be outsourced, it probably will be. Oh, and computers have taken away many of the clerical jobs people could get which did not require a great deal of education.

On top of that, labor unions were the one main influence in the US that created our huge middle class. At the time people were complaining that they were socialist. Perhaps, but it turned out that so many people could newly afford to purchase products that it gave a huge boost to our economy and elevated the American lifestyle greatly.
Yeah, I will not disagree if you say that some unions ended up going overboard, which ended up hurting the economy, and I would add to that many of those companies were/are headed by old stale bueaurocracies, managers making poor decisions, perks being handed them regardless of their bad performance.


So, it is much, much more difficult for a person born poor in the US to work his way up these days, to better the family. It must be so frustrating. In my early days I could easily get a trainee job in a profession with just a few college credits. Now, graduates cannot even get employment and are often so underemployed.
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Lakes & Mountains of East TN
3,454 posts, read 7,393,131 times
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If you consider the number of people we're dealing with, diversity of backgrounds, and the great number of liberties we enjoy, I don't think we're a violent country.

Sure, there are countries that have lower violent crime but I suspect that they also don't enjoy the freedoms that we do here. I don't have time or inclination to research that but it's my opinion.
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