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Even if the U.K. is a violent nation, it still leaves questions unanswered for the U.S. The general theory that poverty breeds crime doesn't seem to apply in the U.S. Our poor would live like kings in most of the rest of the world.
BTW thanks for the changes moderators.
While our poor would live like kings in most of the rest of the world, they don't care about that. They are in the US and so they are still poor. It's all about context.
As to why the US is violent? I think it's a lack of anything else to do with your life that gets you what you want easily. Dark side, basically.
I agree with most of Hawkeye's post---sounds harsh, but I'm afraid it's pretty close to the truth.
As for Aquemini, I agree that most "cops" are, if not out-and-out bullies, certainly guys who aren't loathe to give orders and expect instant compliance. Their working world is a harsh and hostile place, and I don't think they'd be able to do the job at all if they were the soft-spoken, sensitive type. They are, unfortunately, society's "junkyard dogs", and they pay a high price for it in their own personal lives, in the form of psychological stress, marital discord, etc. I know I couldn't do the job.
Miami Rob is correct, in that we've been a violent society from our earliest stages, placing a high value on rugged individualism and an ornery resistance to authority.
A good example of our uniquely violent culture can be seen in contrast with a very similar, but much less violent society, that of Canada.
The American West (or the "frontier") was settled by-and-large by lawless elements who PRECEDED the forces of law-and-order. Indian wars on the plains, as well as cattle-drives and mining "rushes" were all accompanied by a horrendous rate of murder and mayhem, often in the complete absence of ANY law enforcement, until the later stages.
In Canada, by contrast, the "Mounties" secured the West PRIOR to large-scale settlement by arriving settlers. There was much less free-spirited violence against the natives. And one of the world's greatest gold rushes, in the Yukon, saw an instant city of 40,000 people from all over the world, spring up in the midst of a remote and almost uninhabited wilderness---yet the rate of murder and violence was surprisingly low. The "mounties" held careful watch over Dawson City. Meanwhile, on the gold-rushers' travel route, the port of Skagway was a very violent and corrupt place. And it was in Alaska, so of course was under American law.
America has always had a sort of love-hate relationship with violence not usually found in other "first-world" societies. It would be interesting to study the reasons for this.
First off, I don't think we really are all that violent as compared to the rest of the world. Part of it might be in the reporting of incidents.
Bottom line to me is that the violence we have is principally due to an opportunistic economy. Some folks who don't do that well may feel a need to offset this disparity through alternative means. Our society needs to ensure an adequate safety net partially to offset the need for rationalizing this as plausible.
A smaller secondary cause is the glorification of this type of behavior, and that is partially a media and video game problem. But in fairness to these media, the young fellows who are prone to this behavior probably would have found a different rationale for being thugs. Some young girls thinking this behavior is "cool" doesn't help fix it either.
I can't answer your question because it is incompletely stated. Please include in your question your criterion for identifying an "excess" of violence.
Okay you are right about poverty and being poor however YOU have CHOICES and you don't have to resort to crack selling; robbing; and killing. That is not what being black is about and it is NOT an EXCUSE. Most black folks didn't grow up with a silver spoon in their mouths. Back when I was growing up, we didn't have much, my Mother raised 4 children without our fathers. We didn't have the finer things but we had EACH OTHER. We had Grandmother/Grandfather/Uncle/Aunts, etc. We all leaned on each other for support and worked for what we wanted. Yes, some chose a life of crime, but that is exactly what it was, THEIR CHOICE. It's not where they came from and it most certainly was NOT how they were raised. Herein lies the problem, the FAMILY STRUCTURE! Babies having babies and Self Pride has diminished. I could go on and on but I'm sure you get my drift.
I agree with you. That is one of the major problems too.
However being poor is one thing.
Being in the ghetto is another.
I would rather be poor and live in the suburbs than be alright financially and raised in the ghetto where stepping on someones shoe prompts you to fight them to avoid further victimization.
Also alot of poor people in our country DO NOT know how to make the right choice.
I honestly thought only extreme nerds went to College and only rich people graduated High School back when I lived in the hood... This was 9th grade.
I had never been told that you become a Lawyer by going to Law School. I didn't know what Law School was.
All I knew was if I wanted to be rich I could rob and kill people and sell drugs.
If I wanted to be middle class I would get a job at Mcdonalds or something.
And if I wanted to be poor I would just sit on my ass and survive on a small check in the mail.
This was my reality and the little world I lived in...
I knew like 1 person who went to COMMUNITY COLLEGE. He was a loser and buster.
And I knew a bunch of dope dealers who got alot of p**** and were cool.
But I didn't wanna be like them. I always looked for something better.
This is how ALOT of Urban poor people in the US see the world.
I USED to have dreams of getting a job at a grocery store near my house and moving out of the project into a trailer and "living it up" to me this was the good life. I was a minority. Not only by race but also what I wanted to be with my life. All my other friends wanted to be the big pimp who sold Heroin like Tony Montana. I just wanted to be the quiet dude who had a wife, 2 kids and a double wide on the white side of town.
They wanted to be drug kingpins (Unrealistically) and this is probably the reason why when I go back to visit my old neighborhood next year most of them will be dead or locked down.
Harsh reality.
Last edited by StPete2Charlotte; 10-04-2007 at 12:35 AM..
Singapore. Hands chopped off for stealing, 30 beats to the back with a cane for littering. Castration for rape I believe. Etcetera.
Isn't Sharia law just great?
If you're a male Muslim who doesn't mind censorship and has little interest in anything outside one's religion, it would be OK. For the rest of us, it would truly suck.
For all the crime problems that America has (and Britain has - their crime rate is about equal to America's except for gun violence), I'd pick our country (or other democracies, particularly Anglosphere democracies) over Islamic countries any day.
I'd like to get a good, candid discussion on why the United States is such a violent nation compared to other "First World" (i.e. nations that are equally as wealthy as we are) nations such as those in Western Europe and East Asia. I look forward to the discussion but I'm also doing this for a survey in my research paper, so please respond to the poll.
You can vote for more than one option on this poll. I understand this is a complex issue and there is no single answer to this question, just as I'm sure there is no single solution.
All except the last reason (the U.S. is a violent country!) are applicable though first is not a reason so much as a fact. Actually most people are not violent here, -but we still have relitively a lot of violence. however, we are far from the worst in this respect, -Russia has a murder rate 5 times ours, and I have read that Jamaica now has the highest murder rate per capita of all. While lower class crime is disproportionately black and brown (the latter much less so than the former according to crime statistics, however) a lot of low class crime in the U.S. is committed by whites too, though. The privileged class also commits crimes (but they tend to mostly get away with it.)
But, I will ad a big additional reason. There is too much greed/envy materialism, and status obsession here!!!!! Also we lack an emphasis on rehabilitation, plus tend to do a lousy job of it even when we try. The common tit for tat-pro revenge mentality and emphasis on maintaining respect at all costs is also a huge problem, -expressed among other things by the way we treat suspects, which also influences our crime rates as well. But that is for another post.
This is a problem throughout the economic-class spectrum, though it gets expressed in at least partly diferant ways among diferant sorts of people. Many of the less fortunate often are also materialistic and greedy, -just less successful in fulfilling those desires. Still most people including most of the poor still would rather be dignified and not risk going to jail if they can help it. But we all know that the exceptions are far too common-!!! But still the majority of all serious crime is not committed by carer criminals, even if they are repeat offenders. Half of all California state prisoners were employed at the time of their arrest.
So, most people follow the law most of the time. Not only do we have high inequality ans a poor safty net for the less fortunate. (which both help to breed crime) But more importantly, greed and/or envy is endemic here now, far more than it used to be. I see this as part of the cultural and moral decline of the U.S. in recent decades, even as we have greatly improved in some areas (like civil rights). -Emil.
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Interesting points
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