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Old 10-11-2012, 12:29 PM
 
4,739 posts, read 4,424,208 times
Reputation: 2485

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Social Security is an illusion. For damn near inception you have already spent your SSN, you just don't realize it

Step A) you send money to SSN
Step B) Government takes money and writes "IOU on it" and then loans it to itself
Step C) Government then spends money on republican/democrat ideas
Since spending is self-loaned from SSN, you benefit with lower taxes.

So the money is gone

we all benefited in some way

So lets just break the illusion, admit it doesn't really exist, and move on.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:33 PM
 
58,684 posts, read 27,044,162 times
Reputation: 14176
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
I still haven't seen a good reason to privatize Social Security in 5 pages of this thread. Not one.
I'll give 3. If I had the money I paid into SS it would be MINE. When I die my heirs get ALL of it. Under SS they get NOTHING.

Even if I had bought U.S Savings Bonds I would have MORE money then what I will get through SS.

My IRA has NEVER been worth less then what I put into it, even through the Housing Bubble burst. You can just about always get a better rate of return investing then what SS returns.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:39 PM
 
27,624 posts, read 21,073,025 times
Reputation: 11095
In 2005, Ryan proposed the Social Security Personal Savings Guarantee and Prosperity Act. Under the proposal, workers would have been able to funnel at least half of their Social Security deduction into a private account. The account would have been managed by the Social Security Administration and invested in a portfolio made up of anywhere between 50% and 80% stocks. The rest would have been in bonds.

Again, you may agree with this proposal because you believe like Ryan that it will “save” the program for future Americans. Or, you might disagree with it on the grounds that the program will remain “underfunded.”

Regardless of your position, there’s no denying who it would benefit: big brokerages.

That’s because even though SSA would “manage” the program, it would need Wall Street’s help: brokers, market-makers, specialists, you name it. Suddenly the financial industry would be getting up to $340 billion, half of Social Security’s 2011 revenue, for fees, commissions and other value-added services.

One study predicted that by 2050 every stock and bond in the U.S. market would be owned by Social Security.

You can almost hear Wall Street slobbering.

Paul Ryan is the Holy Grail for Wall Street - MarketWatch
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,190,378 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
In 2005, Ryan proposed the Social Security Personal Savings Guarantee and Prosperity Act. Under the proposal, workers would have been able to funnel at least half of their Social Security deduction into a private account. The account would have been managed by the Social Security Administration and invested in a portfolio made up of anywhere between 50% and 80% stocks. The rest would have been in bonds.

I love the Ryan plan.

I opted out of SS YEARS ago (Look it up on how you can do it) and have been doing essentially what Mr. Ryan has proposed (not exactly but essentially). I'm getting far more benifits than social security would ever pay me.

One other major benefit with getting rid of SS: I can transfer the accounts to my heirs - I cannot do that with SS.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:15 PM
 
58,684 posts, read 27,044,162 times
Reputation: 14176
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
In 2005, Ryan proposed the Social Security Personal Savings Guarantee and Prosperity Act. Under the proposal, workers would have been able to funnel at least half of their Social Security deduction into a private account. The account would have been managed by the Social Security Administration and invested in a portfolio made up of anywhere between 50% and 80% stocks. The rest would have been in bonds.

Again, you may agree with this proposal because you believe like Ryan that it will “save” the program for future Americans. Or, you might disagree with it on the grounds that the program will remain “underfunded.”

Regardless of your position, there’s no denying who it would benefit: big brokerages.

That’s because even though SSA would “manage” the program, it would need Wall Street’s help: brokers, market-makers, specialists, you name it. Suddenly the financial industry would be getting up to $340 billion, half of Social Security’s 2011 revenue, for fees, commissions and other value-added services.

One study predicted that by 2050 every stock and bond in the U.S. market would be owned by Social Security.

You can almost hear Wall Street slobbering.

Paul Ryan is the Holy Grail for Wall Street - MarketWatch
Another twisted bit of logic.

Are you saying that if you put up, say $1,000 and manages to get a return of say, !00$. you would complain if the person you gave the money to made $10?
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:50 PM
 
56,990 posts, read 35,103,211 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speleothem View Post
So you feel that the Gubmint can invest
your money better than you can?
6 dollars and 20 cents for every hundred bucks i earn? Yea, the government can do better with it than i can AS A FAIRLY CHEAP INSURANCE POLICY AGAINST CATASTROPHIC ILLNESS, OLD AGE, OR INJURY!! It isn't an investment plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Gee, I find it funny that my IRA has completely recovered from the paper loss it incurred.

Maybe you need a different place for yours.
I don't believe you....and for good reason. I doubt that you're telling the truth. None of my investments have totally recovered from the losses although they're doing much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
I'll give 3. If I had the money I paid into SS it would be MINE. When I die my heirs get ALL of it. Under SS they get NOTHING.

Even if I had bought U.S Savings Bonds I would have MORE money then what I will get through SS.

My IRA has NEVER been worth less then what I put into it, even through the Housing Bubble burst. You can just about always get a better rate of return investing then what SS returns.
Fine. Then take another 6.20 for every one hundred bucks you earn and invest it since you can do so much better with it. And since you're so rich, i'm sure it'll be no big loss in disposable income.

Again, Social Security is NOT an investment vehicle, it's insurance. I don't know why some of you hardheads don't get that.

Your Savings Bond comment is ludicrous.
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:57 PM
 
20,622 posts, read 19,282,337 times
Reputation: 8224
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
The government the last few decades has been stealing all the contributions from SS into the general fund.
MAYBE if SS is privatized we can stop the theft of SS contributions by our government.
What do you folks think of that?

I wouldn't mind if SS was where it is now IF THE GOVERNMENT DIDN'T MAKE A THEFT OF IT.

There is no fund. People 30 years from now will be paying into the system. Its like grandma and grandpa retiring when the kids grow up to run the farm.

Now if SS went into something that directly supported retirement in some way ...but its kind of difficult to think that far ahead. However there is no fund and never will be I figure. Its a socialized retiring off the kids program. And no, I don't want to give it away to Wall Street. They are crooks. I'd rather have none at all over that.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:58 PM
 
9,848 posts, read 8,265,157 times
Reputation: 3296
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago View Post
Social Security is an illusion. For damn near inception you have already spent your SSN, you just don't realize it

Step A) you send money to SSN
Step B) Government takes money and writes "IOU on it" and then loans it to itself
Step C) Government then spends money on republican/democrat ideas
Since spending is self-loaned from SSN, you benefit with lower taxes.

So the money is gone

we all benefited in some way

So lets just break the illusion, admit it doesn't really exist, and move on.
That and more, which is how I can see making it private where at least some may survive being stolen by government.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,190,378 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by obispoman50 View Post
I can't find anything where you can opt out of SS. Could you supply a link please. Thanking you in advance.
Type: Opting out of social security. You will get numerous links such as Can I opt out of paying Social Security and invest on my own? - USATODAY.com and others.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:34 PM
 
56,990 posts, read 35,103,211 times
Reputation: 18824
I don't believe for a minute that C-D posters are opting out of Social Security.

In lieu of what? Your big time investments?

Every single one of you will at age 62 (or older) walk your happy asses down to the Social Security office and apply for your benefits. And you'll leave with a big smile on your faces....not to mention the jump in the air you'll do when you click your heels together in joy.

So please....gimme a break.
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