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Old 08-11-2012, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,180,801 times
Reputation: 7875

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Farms. Natural resources. Know-how.

You think LA, NY, or the other big liberal population centers could exist without federal support? Dream on.

The farmer in Iowa or cattleman in Texas wouldn't skip a beat.
With no government, you think people wouldn't just take those farm lands and natural resources?
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,094 posts, read 26,008,825 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
By the way, Mark Levin is an idiot.
Non-sequiter award of the day.
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:44 PM
 
29,407 posts, read 22,005,733 times
Reputation: 5455
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
With no government, you think people wouldn't just take those farm lands and natural resources?
They could try. I don't think folks would put up with a bunch of occupy folks standing around peeing on em like the PC police in big cities do though.
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Old 08-11-2012, 11:46 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
15,088 posts, read 13,450,610 times
Reputation: 14266
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
There. Had to get it out of my system.

I understand that taxes are too high. I understand that high taxes negatively impact the economy. Etc. But please, Republicans, you sound like moral illiterates when you equate taxation with theft.

Same goes for when you portray public assistance as something unjust or immoral in itself. Despite the real problems of the welfare state, there is nothing inherently wrong with government helping the poor. It's time to measure your words a little more carefully.

By the way, Mark Levin is an idiot.
You know what... I agree with you. Well said.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:17 AM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,606,632 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Non-sequiter award of the day.
I know. Couldn't help myself.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:27 AM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,606,632 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
The concept of taxation is not theft, but when done without representation by stealing the SS fund, growing the hell out of the size of government and employees of the government we don't need and so forth.

They tax us way too much, way to often and they spend without any logic or common sense.

The whole deal with politicians getting a hold of our money needs to be fixed. They need to be accountable, limited and eventually we need a balanced budget amendment.
I agree with this, though I'm not too concerned with "representation" if our government just does the right thing. Public assistance should be relegated to the states under the Constitution. And I'm not opposed to it on that level if provided intelligently, combined with a regimen of work or training for the men, and inflexibly tied to good behavior (e.g., no co-habitation).

My concern with this post is really to defeat the irrational - and fundamentally anti-human - rhetoric of libertarianism that has infected the conservative movement.

Also, we need to realize that simply cutting off public assistance at this point, without attempting to concretely help those who are now dependent on it, is putting the cart before the horse.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:08 AM
 
4,278 posts, read 5,177,911 times
Reputation: 2375
Of course taxes are theft. Anytime you take something away from an individual or company and give it to another person or company that is theft. Is it wrong for government to help in and assist people that need help? Sure, but it has to have a limit and in many cases require work in exchange. If you are receiving food stamps you are tasked with going to the local parks, roads, etc..to pick up trash, trim the bushes, if you receive medicaid, you give up the earned income credit and that money goes to the state, if you are living in section 8 housing, you are assigned to pick up trash, trim bushes etc...someplace. Many people, more than anyone can dream of, have made a very good life for themselves via the "safety net". As for welfare for farmers, companies etc.....that should be reduced or eliminated too.
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Limbo
6,512 posts, read 7,549,515 times
Reputation: 6319
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
There. Had to get it out of my system.

I understand that taxes are too high. I understand that high taxes negatively impact the economy. Etc. But please, Republicans, you sound like moral illiterates when you equate taxation with theft.

Same goes for when you portray public assistance as something unjust or immoral in itself. Despite the real problems of the welfare state, there is nothing inherently wrong with government helping the poor. It's time to measure your words a little more carefully.

By the way, Mark Levin is an idiot.
Glad you got it out of your system because now I can vent about this topic, too.

Thank you!
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:18 AM
 
12,265 posts, read 6,472,102 times
Reputation: 9435
We`re overtaxed? I think not.


Americans' tax burden is lightest in developed world - USATODAY.com
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:13 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,048,770 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCCCB View Post
The concept of taxation is not theft, but when done without representation by stealing the SS fund, growing the hell out of the size of government and employees of the government we don't need and so forth.
This line is such utter b.s.

We have the government that we have because We The People want it that way.

We the People, want the government to take care of the elderly and the poor.

We the People, safe food to eat at stable prices.

We the People want to have the biggest and bestest military.

We the People want the homes protected from ocean tides.

We the People want clean air, clean water and all the little birdies and flowers that goes along with it.

We the People do and don't want to drill in wild life areas.

We the People want all the benefits of "Obamacare" just not the supposed cost.

We the People want the government to forecast the weather.

We the People want safe airplanes and an efficient air traffic control system

We the People want, want, want, want....

The problem isn't the government, it is just providing the goods and services that We the People demand of it.

Frankly, I pretty much fed up with complaints about corporations, government, left, right wtf ever. When we elect representatives to our government it is just We the People who enter into the ballot box. We the People rich, poor, middle class whatever who want stuff to be provided by the society as a whole and the only vehicle for providing those goods and services is the government and everybody knows it.
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