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Here is the reality just as other immigrants added some of their traditions to America, so will others. The American culture changes it always has changed. So most of what you mentioned is irrelevant, thanksgiving, cinco de mayo?
I take it you identify yourself as a conservative. This is the real problem. Conservative political ideology on this issue creates an irrational level of fear and loathing about the other destroying America.
If you've ever picked up a sociology book (Lipset, Huntington) you would know that American culture is largely based on an Anglo Saxon Protestant heritage. Whether or not that is beginning to dissipate remains yet to be seen.
Here is the reality just as other immigrants added some of their traditions to America, so will others. The American culture changes it always has changed. So most of what you mentioned is irrelevant, thanksgiving, cinco de mayo?
I take it you identify yourself as a conservative. This is the real problem. Conservative political ideology on this issue creates an irrational level of fear and loathing about the other destroying America.
Where in my post did I indicate fear or loathing ?
I don't fear change. I do mourn the loss though. America is changing and I am adapting.
I CHOOSE to go teach where I teach which is in inner city schools.
I figure the 30-40% that might make it in society should be able to do math.
The holidays were just one example. I didn't even mention Memorial Day because that is pretty much just considered a day off now.
I think this country does have a common culture. I think it's why people still come to this country. People come here to live like Americans. Where the OP goes wrong is in what he thinks living like an American is. I won't speak to what his ideas are, but I can speak to what my grandparents thought. They didn't think it meant that they had to give up their ethnic foods. They didn't think it meant that they couldn't speak their native language. They didn't think it meant that they had to give up their family and holiday traditions.
They did think that in America, they could work hard and get ahead, and they wouldn't be penalized for being from the wrong social class. They did think that in America they could vote for their representatives in government, and that they could criticize that government freely and openly. They did think that when they finished work for the day, that their time was theirs. Their boss couldn't tell them how to spend that time. They did think that in America they could go to the church of their choice, and that neither their boss or government would tell them otherwise. They did think that if someone tried to harm them, that the police would respond and try to protect them, even though they weren't rich. They did think that they could send their children to school, and their children would receive an education. They did think that they could write letters to friends and family, and that here in America those letters would be private.
They aspired to be Americans because America was and is a nation of laws. They aspired to be Americans because they wanted to have a voice in their government, they wanted to be a part of a great country. They aspired to be Americans because they wanted a better life for their children than their parents had. They aspired to be Americans because they sought out opportunity and freedom. The people coming to our country today are seeking to be Americans for the same reasons.
The foods we eat, the music we listen to, the books we read, are always going to be changing, evolving. The churches we go to, the movies we watch, are going to change just like they've always changed. That change will encounter resistance from people who are basically afraid that the changes will mean less power for them. But the changes are going to happen anyway.
For the most part, we're a country that has handled change well. That's part of our culture. We think we can fix the problems. We just don't always agree on how to fix things, or even on what the problems are. But we'll figure it out. We always have.
A rep for a thoughtful comment, though I don't agree with all of it.
I have great respect for people like your grandparents.
You describe an America of process - law, freedom, opportunity, those are process words. Yes, I will grant that process also derives from culture. But it flows from a source, and should not be mistaken for the source itself. Why did America become a land of law, freedom, and opportunity? The answer, in my view, is that America's common culture produced and facilitated this outcome. Without that common culture, the system your grandparents appreciated so much isn't going to last long.
I CHOOSE to go teach where I teach which is in inner city schools.
I figure the 30-40% that might make it in society should be able to do math.
Okay now its clearer where you are coming from.
There are some major issues that come with dealing with certain communities in America, but glad to know there are Americans who are up to the challenge and meet it head on rather than moaning & groaning.
Without that common culture, the system your grandparents appreciated so much isn't going to last long.
If America had a singular culture, why such fragmentation since the beginning? I always find it amusing that people who push for such ideas also (in another instance) talk about the need for "states' rights". If everybody is supposed to be the same, why not just demand for an all out uniformity in every single aspect that defines "culture"? And what would it include? Could you enumerate some of the most significant ones? Would it also require personal sacrifices to give up one's heritage to abide by set standards laid at societal level?
I think this country does have a common culture. I think it's why people still come to this country. People come here to live like Americans. Where the OP goes wrong is in what he thinks living like an American is. I won't speak to what his ideas are, but I can speak to what my grandparents thought. They didn't think it meant that they had to give up their ethnic foods. They didn't think it meant that they couldn't speak their native language. They didn't think it meant that they had to give up their family and holiday traditions.
They did think that in America, they could work hard and get ahead, and they wouldn't be penalized for being from the wrong social class. They did think that in America they could vote for their representatives in government, and that they could criticize that government freely and openly. They did think that when they finished work for the day, that their time was theirs. Their boss couldn't tell them how to spend that time. They did think that in America they could go to the church of their choice, and that neither their boss or government would tell them otherwise. They did think that if someone tried to harm them, that the police would respond and try to protect them, even though they weren't rich. They did think that they could send their children to school, and their children would receive an education. They did think that they could write letters to friends and family, and that here in America those letters would be private.
They aspired to be Americans because America was and is a nation of laws. They aspired to be Americans because they wanted to have a voice in their government, they wanted to be a part of a great country. They aspired to be Americans because they wanted a better life for their children than their parents had. They aspired to be Americans because they sought out opportunity and freedom. The people coming to our country today are seeking to be Americans for the same reasons.
The foods we eat, the music we listen to, the books we read, are always going to be changing, evolving. The churches we go to, the movies we watch, are going to change just like they've always changed. That change will encounter resistance from people who are basically afraid that the changes will mean less power for them. But the changes are going to happen anyway.
For the most part, we're a country that has handled change well. That's part of our culture. We think we can fix the problems. We just don't always agree on how to fix things, or even on what the problems are. But we'll figure it out. We always have.
If America had a singular culture, why such fragmentation since the beginning? I always find it amusing that people who push for such ideas also (in another instance) talk about the need for "states' rights". If everybody is supposed to be the same, why not just demand for an all out uniformity in every single aspect that defines "culture"? And what would it include? Could you enumerate some of the most significant ones? Would it also require personal sacrifices to give up one's heritage to abide by set standards laid at societal level?
Our system of government derives from English common law. We are largely an English speaking and protestant nation. Our social values and societal morality primarily originate from our puritanical roots.
I'm not sure what else you would be looking for...
I think to equate states' rights with culture is a bit of a logical fallacy. States right's is a system of government in which states are granted certain powers and prerogatives pertaining to the creation of of specific laws and policy. The concept is in fact a derivative of our common culture (individualism, self determination etc). Rather than some sort of multicultural mechanism in which you seem to suggest.
A rep for a thoughtful comment, though I don't agree with all of it.
I have great respect for people like your grandparents.
You describe an America of process - law, freedom, opportunity, those are process words. Yes, I will grant that process also derives from culture. But it flows from a source, and should not be mistaken for the source itself. Why did America become a land of law, freedom, and opportunity? The answer, in my view, is that America's common culture produced and facilitated this outcome. Without that common culture, the system your grandparents appreciated so much isn't going to last long.
They aren't process words. They are the heart and soul of American culture. They are what gave us "common culture". The thirteen colonies certainly weren't homogenous. The northern colonies were started by people fleeing Europe. The southern colonies were started by people who were extending European power and customs. What bound those thirteen colonies together, what they had in common, were the ideas of equality and law, freedom, opportunity regardless of your class, your parentage, your ethnicity. And as the United States has grown, it's those principles that are our culture, those principles that are expressed in our legal code, those principles that are echoed in our government, those principles that are the basis for our popular culture. We don't have museums that are just for the upper classes. Television and radio are freely broadcast, in English and in other languages. We don't have professions that are reserved for people with the right backgrounds. We don't have colleges and universities that only the elite can attend. Because law, freedom, opportunity aren't "process" words, they are words that describe who Americans are, regardless of color or religion or social or economic status.
"There even are places where English completely disappears. In America, they haven't used it for years!" - Prof. Henry Higgins
Really? Well, just what is our national language (according to congress itself) and what language is the most overwhelming one spoken in the U.S. and has been since it's inception?
If America had a singular culture, why such fragmentation since the beginning?
There was, in the beginning, a kind of "unity in diversity". See Kirk's "Roots of American Order" or Tocqueville's "Democracy in America" for details. That diversity was probably too wide to be sustainable, in retrospect, but there was enough religious and cultural unity - even among the many sects of Christians, including Catholics - for agreement on ultimate goods, which made common understandings and a unified public life possible.
And the diversity, such as it was, made such agreement necessary in order to avoid civil strife, which the English colonists were intimately familiar with and anxious to avoid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
I always find it amusing that people who push for such ideas also (in another instance) talk about the need for "states' rights". If everybody is supposed to be the same, why not just demand for an all out uniformity in every single aspect that defines "culture"?
States rights were embedded in the Constitution precisely because their cultural unity was not absolute. The Anglicans in Virginia, the Congregationalists in Massachusetts, the Catholics in Maryland, etc. wanted their own public life without uniformity being centrally imposed. Even the established state churches were left untouched by the Constitution. That was really the experiment: was there enough cultural unity for a strong national government, while allowing sufficient liberty for the states to preserve their own values?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
And what would it include? Could you enumerate some of the most significant ones? Would it also require personal sacrifices to give up one's heritage to abide by set standards laid at societal level?
In my opinion, preventing the collapse of America will require a much higher cultural consensus than we have today. Perhaps not as high as it once was, but sufficient to facilitate agreement on the most important and divisive issues facing the nation. Would it mean giving up one's heritage? In some things, undoubtedly, but not most. If Americans simply returned to their religious heritage that would move us closer to the goal.
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