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I think you missed the point of the OP. Read the two words I bolded in your comment: "it says". That's the facade Ryan throws out to the American people. But what are his and the Repubs' real intention: to obliterate SS/Medicare. They have never been shy about wanting to accomplish this. My point is that what they say they want to do and what the provisions in the Act of 1935 say they can do are one and the same. It's just a matter of slowly tricking the public into thinking that cutting their throats is somehow good for them. With a deviously clever elite 1%, a compliant MSM, and an American public with the collective intellect of a two-year-old---it's just a matter of time. In the next ten years, in fact.
rubbish plain a simple. the republicans dont want to elimiate either program, they want to reform them so that they are around when the younger crowd retires and goes on the programs.
Thy've been doing a pretty good job of it for the last 75 years. If you had a business that had 100 percent satisfied customers for 75 years running, I'd think that was a successful business.
Is that what you call a plan that takes money for 75 years and has nothing left to show for it? If that was my business plan, I'd be sitting in a jail cell next to Madoff.
Is that what you call a plan that takes money for 75 years and has nothing left to show for it? If that was my business plan, I'd be sitting in a jail cell next to Madoff.
No, I was thinking more along the lines of they have been paying out agreed upon, scheduled retirement benefits for 75 years and never missed a payment yet. What are the odds they will miss next month's payment?
FYI:, I'm very familiar with your whole spiel on how, technically, it isn't THIS or it isn't THAT and all that you cite to prove you're right, that it is just some ponzi shell game. All your scenarios are future, doom and gloom projections designed to convince people to kill the entire program. I deal in what HAS happened in the past and what IS happening today. Social Security has been reformed twice since it's inception to keep pace with changing demographics and future recipients demands. It has also never missed a payment to any individual who was due one in it's entire history. It can be fixed with another adjustment to accomodate current and future recipients. I don't think anyone is buying your doom and gloom scenarios which you constantly post on the Social Security Threads.
Most Americans are under the impression that just because they paid into SS it gave them the right to collect benefits for the rest of their lives. The common line goes, "I paid for SS. I have a right to be paid benefits."
Here's the language from the original bill, of the Social Security Act of 1935, that shoots holes in their dreams of unfettered checks from the govt until they die. It's from Section 1104:
Moreover, in Flemming v. Nestor (1960) the Supreme Court "established the principle that entitlement to Social Security benefits is not contractual right." In delivering the Court's opinion, Justice Harlan wrote:
"What this means is that payroll taxpayers have no right to Social Security benefits whatsoever; they are owed nothing; they have no contractual rights, no ownership -- and no recourse should Congress end the program."
Ryan talks about keeping people over 55 on SS and weaning the young off it. Many of us suspect that underneath all this political hay is a devious Republican plan to eliminate SS/Medicare as quickly and stealthily as possible for both young AND old--and the sooner, the better.
You might want to include an analysis of the increase in contributions/taxes since 1935 that its taken to keep the program solvent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohawkx
No, I was thinking more along the lines of they have been paying out agreed upon, scheduled retirement benefits for 75 years and never missed a payment yet. What are the odds they will miss next month's payment?
FYI:, I'm very familiar with your whole spiel on how, technically, it isn't THIS or it isn't THAT and all that you cite to prove you're right, that it is just some ponzi shell game. All your scenarios are future, doom and gloom projections designed to convince people to kill the entire program. I deal in what HAS happened in the past and what IS happening today. Social Security has been reformed twice since it's inception to keep pace with changing demographics and future recipients demands. It has also never missed a payment to any individual who was due one in it's entire history. It can be fixed with another adjustment to accomodate current and future recipients. I don't think anyone is buying your doom and gloom scenarios which you constantly post on the Social Security Threads.
The plans for social security are faulty, in my opinion. It was never intended to be around for forever, but people got used to it. It was supposed to be temporary help for seniors that were dealing with the Great Depression and could no longer work. The first seniors to benefit never put one dime into the plan. The way we are going, there will be people who put money into SS their whole life who NEVER see one dime back. Either we fix it, or decide it can die. But, right now too many seniors have not planned for their retirement because they thought the government was taking care of their retirement plan. Everyday, 10,000 people turn 65. This is the first year of the babyboomers turning retirement age. Less younger people are working and are on their own government programs and not putting into SS. The money will run out. We need some people to get in there and fix things. There is too much wasteful spending. For instance, did y'all know that the death benefit on SS is $255? So, when you die, your family gets a whopping $255. What are they going to do with that? Guess buy you some flowers. That money would be better kept and saved. So, if 5,000 people in America, that have paid into SS, die a day than that is a payout of $1,275,00 a day! That is a lot of money for some flowers. We need to get some people into the government to pass a budget and really look at these issues.
No, I was thinking more along the lines of they have been paying out agreed upon, scheduled retirement benefits for 75 years and never missed a payment yet. What are the odds they will miss next month's payment?
FYI:, I'm very familiar with your whole spiel on how, technically, it isn't THIS or it isn't THAT and all that you cite to prove you're right, that it is just some ponzi shell game. All your scenarios are future, doom and gloom projections designed to convince people to kill the entire program. I deal in what HAS happened in the past and what IS happening today. Social Security has been reformed twice since it's inception to keep pace with changing demographics and future recipients demands. It has also never missed a payment to any individual who was due one in it's entire history. It can be fixed with another adjustment to accomodate current and future recipients. I don't think anyone is buying your doom and gloom scenarios which you constantly post on the Social Security Threads.
The fact that they havent missed a payment, and most likely wont miss next months payment, doesnt mean that I wouldnt be in jail for doing the same. Madoff never missed a payment either.
And the Supreme Court says there is no obligation, so they back up my position. Dont like it, take it up with them, but while you're taking it up with them, be sure to take it up with people like the President, who dont count obligations you pretend to exist, in the national debt totals.
read the ryan plan again will you? it says that anyone over the age of 55 will NOT be denied medicare. it goes on to say that those under 55 have the choice of either going on medicare, OR taking the voucher to buy their OWN insurance. and the voucher plan payment is NOT set in stone either. if you need more to buy insurance, the government would pony up more. in the end however the ryan plan doesnt actually save medicare, so much as extend it to where we have time to make the program sustainable.
You have heard what Ryan says in words other than what the Democrat party is throwing around so you know more about it than the leaners here do. They will never manage to see what you just said since Media Matters and the others don't tell the story like that.
On ths one you are 100% correct. The govenment took and still takes money from me every month with the understading that I would be able to draw on it when I retire, either they will repay the funds plus interest or continue the program, the alternative would result in a blood bath.
We finally agree on something and I will add that I know 535 people who would find themselves at the end of the ropes mentioned just before you.
rubbish plain a simple. the republicans dont want to elimiate either program, they want to reform them so that they are around when the younger crowd retires and goes on the programs.
The problem here is that the Democrats see those two programs as their babies since they controlled the Congress when they were created and they are damned if they are going to allow those filthy Republicans to make the reforms. That has been the problem all along.
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