Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have not yet yet taken the bar exam - but unless you have taken the bar exam or are a law student - i guarantee that I know more about the law then you do.
Extremely dubious of that claim, I've seen your opinionated posts here enuf to know you have little understanding of the legal system. You play on an emotional level and the law isn't about Passion, emotions and opinion.
Biology has nothing to do with custodial rights because if it did a crackhead prostitute who placed her child up for adoption would have the legitimate right to change her mind and take the child back without the permission much less knowledge of the custodial parents or the courts. Why? Because of what; her being the biological mother?
I think not and I am certain that you would agree.
The conversation on this thread would have a slightly different tenor (if the thread would even exist) were we talking about a crackhead mom. And if you have an ounce of intellectual honesty admit that the only reason why there is a controversy is because of you and others holding religious and political views not present within the law. This is why Lady Justice wears a blindfold. We don't, or shouldn't have laws that bend and flex because of the person opinion of an individual or group of individuals.
So to summarize:
If and when the courts make a determination of who has or who doesn't have custodial rights, the person granted those rights are the L E G A L - P-A-R-E-N-T.
Anyone who willfully takes a child from its L E G A L - P A R E N T or G U A R D I A N, against their wishes is a C R I M I N A L and should be prosecuted as one.
Period. End of Story.
The woman in Vermont was neither the biological parent, nor the custodial parent, BUBBA. The woman in Vermont was granted visitation only ... not custody. The result of those visits showed a psychological trauma being imposed on this child from these visits ... no doubt relating to Lesbian Momma #2 twisted bath time activities, to which the child did not like and asked her REAL-BIOLOGICAL-CUSTODIAL mother to tell the stranger to stop. Now, it is clear that none of you give a damn about that child, why? Well, obviously the kid isn't important. Her feelings, her emotional comfort and her welfare and safety is totally immaterial to you .. and that is disgustingly obvious. What is amazing is that you aren't even smart enough, or feel the need to conjure a little phony concern, just for show.
Now, you all want society to accept and treat you as normal human beings, no differently than anyone else. Fine .. I got no problem with that. Just do me and everyone else a favor, will ya? Start ACTING LIKE NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS and DEFEND CHILDREN instead of defending each other in cases like these, and you might make some progress on that front. Until then, you are earning whatever scorn you might receive from the general public ... not because of your sexual orientation, but because of your insidious and diabolical behavior such as we are witnessing right here!
You can claim anything ... but actions speak louder than words ... and your actions betray you, and people are wising up. Some of you need to keep your paws of people's kids, and the rest of you had better get on board and condemn their actions, rather than defend them or make lame excuses or continue the denials and the lies.
Period. End of story.
Last edited by GuyNTexas; 08-18-2012 at 02:46 PM..
There was expert testimony stating the child exhibited signs of being molested upon returning home from visits with the non custodial mother.
It sure sounds like "cooked" evidence to me...Hired "expert" witnesses do not impress me..
Ms. Miller, moved to Virginia, declared herself a born-again Christian, tried in court to strip Ms. Jenkins of her parental rights and interfered with mandated visits. In 2009, as a frustrated Family Court judge in Vermont threatened to transfer custody of the girl, Ms. Miller disappeared with her daughter.
I actually remember this case from back in 2008 when an online poster on usenet posted about her friend Janet Jenkins and how she was being denied visitation.
Here is some information gleaned from the internet and including interviews with Lisa and Janet. It certainly looks to me as if Janet is the more stable parent even if she is not the biological parent.
Lisa and Janet were married in a civil union in 2000. They used an artificial insemination procedure and Miller gave birth to baby Isabella in 2002. She was 17 months old when they broke up. Jenkins court case began after Miller started denying her visitation in 2008 (?).
Janet won in court in both Vermont and Virginia. Jenkins was only asking for visitation rights, not for custody, but Lisa continued to deny that. The parents were equal in terms of finances and emotional availability, but only Jenkins was willing to work something out. In fact, Janet had agreed to and paid child support.
Lisa claimed that Isabella was traumatized by her visits to Jenkins, but it's not uncommon in a bitter custody situation for one parent to make false allegations about the other.
The social worker actually did not say that visitation should be denied, but said that the parent rather than the child should be the one to travel during the school year. I read the pdf.
This pastor arranged to take the child and her mother out of the country.
If a man does this, he is subject to sanctions, but it is still very difficult to get the child returned depending upon the country.
I do think that it would be very difficult for Isabella who is now 10 to be transferred to the custody of a parent she does not know. Also, Isabella has been brainwashed into Christianity by a mother who seems relatively unstable if you look at her biography and what she experienced herself as a child.
Her parents divorced when she was 7 and she began taking speed at that young age.
She first identified herself as lesbian in 1994 supposedly pushed by psychiatrists at the hospital where she had been hospitalized for alcohol addiction.
She had a suicide attempt due to alcohol, pills, food addictions and her failed marriage.
Her mother was mentally ill and apparently had multiple personalities. She claims she was physically and sexually abused by her mother.
She claims her relationship with Jenkins was only physical a few times a year. She also lived with another woman for two years and another for a few months prior to meeting Janet Jenkins.
I found it interesting that Miller was fined and Jenkins took a time share they owned instead of cash, but apparently filed for bancruptcy? Aren't fines generally paid to the court?
Jenkins also stated she didn't want full custody.
What a sad mess for this poor child.
Last edited by Isitmeorarethingsnuts?; 08-18-2012 at 02:51 PM..
Reason: add
I must revise my previous comments as I have gathered more information than what was presented in the initial story. Have you read the details of this case? Maybe you have not. Here are some additional facts that were not present in the original piece that are extremely disturbing:
The background is that the biological mother of Isabella, Lisa Miller (artificially inseminated) and her partner Janet Jenkins dissolved their civil union. Ms. Jenkins did not legally adopt Isabella, so there is no legal custody issue from that perspective, however, the court granted visitation rights to the partner 2 1/2 years after the end of this civil union, obviously pursued by the non-biological "mother" Jenkins.
The visitation orders were honored by Miller, but after only two visits with Jenkins, Isabella demonstrated emotional trauma as a result of these visitations. No less than three professionals (one of which was a court appointed psychologist and advocate of the Child, and not either adult) testified to the manifestation of trauma symptoms directly resulting from these visits. Yet the court refused to consider this testimony, including it's own appointed expert, and ordered the visits to continue. The mother refused and the court threatened to take the child away from her and place the child in sole custody of Jenkins ... who had no biological or legitimate legal ties to the child, other than this Judge's decision.
The facts which were omitted in the OP's story are quite troubling ... and provide some disturbing insight. From the case reports:
After the first court ordered overnight visit (this was 2 1/2 years after the end of the civil union between Miller and Jenkins) this is what the child had to say afterward:
‘Mommy, will you please tell Janet that I don’t have to take a bath anymore at her house.’”
“I asked her what happened. She said, ‘Janet took a bath with me.’ I asked her if she had a bathing suit on. ‘No, Mommy.’ She had no clothes on and it totally scared Isabella. She had never seen this woman except once in 2 ½ years and she takes a bath with her.”
The testimony of the mother Lisa Miller told of Isabella being forced to take a bath with Jenkins, naked, and that she didn't want to do that. After another visit, Miller testified that Isabella placed a comb to her throat, saying she wanted to kill herself. And Miller also testified that Isabella began openly masturbating, which she had never done before.
Others close to the mother and daughter testified to noticing dramatic changes in Isabella's behavior after commencement of these visitations. There was bed wetting, and anxiety and sleeplessness, among others more severe.
Then there was the testimony of the psychological experts who testified to seeing these characteristic signs of emotional trauma after these visitations too. And that included testimony of the court appointed psychologist, who recommended against the continuation of unsupervised visits, for which the Judge ignored, as he ordered that the unsupervised visits continue, threatening to take the child away from the biological mother and place he in sole custody of Jenkins, if Miller failed to comply.
So, she took off, left the country to protect her daughter. And it sounds like to me that the only persons belonging behind bars is that asinine judge making such a dreadful decision, and the Lesbian that is apparently sexually abusing that little girl.
Anyone coming to any other conclusion, based on these facts, is either not very bright, or is a hobgoblin demon who thinks it's okay to molest children.
Life site news is a gay bashing piece of crap...Not credible..This whole thing was set up and encouraged by Bryan Fisher, and he should also be put away...
The kidnapping coward of a mother's letter to a Vermont judge: "“What is at stake is the health and well-being of an intelligent, delightful, beautiful, 7-year-old Christian girl,” she wrote. Isabella “knows from her own reading of the Bible that marriage is between a man and a woman … that she cannot have two mommies, that when I lived the homosexual lifestyle I sinned against God, and that unless Janet accepts Christ as her personal savior, she will not go to heaven.”
I look forward to the day that the kidnapper and her daughter are found and the child is given permanently into the custody of her other mother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim
Right, she's a "kidnapper" for protecting her innocent daughter from this Jenkins witch. What kind of twisted backasswards world do you live in?
backasswards is right. I'm not surprised this happened in Vermont.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
And yet brainwashing children with religious extremism is perfectly all right with you. So your views on the corruption of children mean diddly squat.
And brainwashing a child about homosexuality is all right? We have the freedom of Religion here, and to practice it as we see fit, remember?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
The TOS prevents me from being completely open with my thoughts. So I'll just stick to the facts:
The person you call the "kidnapper" is the legitimate B I O L O G I C A L - M O T H E R who gave birth to this child.
The alleged "wronged individual" has no biological connection to this child, an no legal right that should be recognized by a legitimate court, anymore so than a non-biologically related live in boyfriend of a heterosexual relationship would be granted parental rights by a court. It's the same damned thing as granting this lesbian "parental visitation". There was no legal "adoption" conferring those rights, and no sperm from her involved in the child's creation.
You show your extreme bias and disregard for the child by insisting that the defense experts testifying to clear signs of emotional trauma are perjuring themselves under oath, as is the mother, and the family friends, all because they have it out for the lesbian. And that the child's claims I guess were coaxed by the "kidnapper", and all of the signs of emotional stress and trauma are manufactured lies .... BASED ON WHAT EVIDENCE other than your biased, irrational defense of this likely child molester? I'll tell you .. you have NOTHING to base that on except your willingness to believe the molester and not the several witnesses testifying under oath.
This is a classic example of the repeated behavior of homosexuals and their apologists who come running in defense of child molesters when the accused act is same sex molestation. It never fails ... you don't give a squat about children, and that's why the disgust with you is growing ... not because the disgusted are bigots, but because your attitudes and behavior is disgusting.
The gay world is turning more and more people against them by their actions, their activism, their "in-your-face" accept us or else..
in November 2009, Vermont ordered that sole custody of Isabella be given to Jenkins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
The woman in Vermont was neither the biological parent, nor the custodial parent, BUBBA. The woman in Vermont was granted visitation only ... not custody. The result of those visits showed a psychological trauma being imposed on this child from these visits ... no doubt relating to Lesbian Momma #2 twisted bath time activities, to which the child did not like and asked her REAL-BIOLOGICAL-CUSTODIAL mother to tell the stranger to stop. Now, it is clear that none of you give a damn about that child, why? Well, obviously the kid isn't important. Her feelings, her emotional comfort and her welfare and safety is totally immaterial to you .. and that is disgustingly obvious. What is amazing is that you aren't even smart enough, or feel the need to conjure a little phony concern, just for show.
Now, you all want society to accept and treat you as normal human beings, no differently than anyone else. Fine .. I got no problem with that. Just do me and everyone else a favor, will ya? Start ACTING LIKE NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS and DEFEND CHILDREN instead of defending each other in cases like these, and you might make some progress on that front. Until then, you are earning whatever scorn you might receive from the general public ... not because of your sexual orientation, but because of your insidious and diabolical behavior such as we are witnessing right here!
You can claim anything ... but actions speak louder than words ... and your actions betray you, and people are wising up. Some of you need to keep your paws of people's kids, and the rest of you had better get on board and condemn their actions, rather than defend them or make lame excuses or continue the denials and the lies.
It sure sounds like "cooked" evidence to me...Hired "expert" witnesses do not impress me..
Ms. Miller, moved to Virginia, declared herself a born-again Christian, tried in court to strip Ms. Jenkins of her parental rights and interfered with mandated visits. In 2009, as a frustrated Family Court judge in Vermont threatened to transfer custody of the girl, Ms. Miller disappeared with her daughter.
My interest is in the child. The politics of the whole mess doesn't sway me one way or another.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
