Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-23-2012, 03:06 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,455,098 times
Reputation: 9074

Advertisements

Turns out that someone has already challenged the Portland tax as unconstitutional, and a judge has already ruled that it's not a head tax because some people (people without earned income and people with earned income below poverty level).

Is this a good decision or is it judicial activism, a politicql decision?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-23-2012, 03:41 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,999 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13701
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Proponents of the tax say it's not a head tax. Apparently their reasoning is that if some people are exempted, it's not a head tax.
Correct. There are no exceptions to a head tax.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-23-2012, 04:06 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,455,098 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Correct. There are no exceptions to a head tax.

It that is true, there is so much slop out there in cyberspace. Wikipedia, for example gives examples of head/poll taxes with exemptions (e.g. the Roman Empire had a head tax from which Roman citizens were exempt; the poor are exempt from the "jizya" in Shari'a law). Other examples of head taxes with exemptions can be found online.

So what kind of nitwit would write a constitutional provision that prohibits a universal fixed tax but magically makes a fixed tax okay if it's something less than universal? Would a liberal or a conservative write that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-23-2012, 04:06 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,782,576 times
Reputation: 4174
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
Consider a fixed tax with an exemption for those with income below poverty level:

If you're above poverty level, you pay a flat x dollars. A person making $50K pays x dollars and someone making $1 million pays the same x dollars. If you're below poverty level, you are exempt.

Some people call that a head tax and some people say it isn't. What do you think?
It's a head tax except for that poverty exemption.

An actual head tax has no such exemption - EVERYBODY pays the same dollar amount.

Note that such a tax was the ONLY personal tax allowed under the Constitution when it was written. All other taxes had to be excise taxes (taxes on items such as wheat, liquor, rubber, gasoline etc.), duties (taxes on things imported or exported), and I think a few other things.

The ratification of the 16th amendment changed this, and allowed taxes on incomes for the first time in American history. (actually the govt tried to impose income taxes during the Civil War, but they were struck down as unconstitutional.)

In the original Constitution, it said that any personal taxes (called "direct taxes") must be sent to the government by the states (not by the people), and the amount must be proportional to the population of the state. That's a Head Tax.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-23-2012, 04:10 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,999 posts, read 44,813,405 times
Reputation: 13701
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
It that is true, there is so much slop out there in cyberspace. Wikipedia, for example gives examples of head/poll taxes with exemptions (e.g. the Roman Empire had a head tax from which Roman citizens were exempt; the poor are exempt from the "jizya" in Shari'a law). Other examples of head taxes with exemptions can be found online.
A head tax is a head tax, period. There are no exceptions. Just like a capitation rate is a capitation rate (health insurance, look it up). No exceptions. Wikipedia can call them whatever they want but unless everyone is charged, they're not head taxes. A poll tax is not a head tax.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-23-2012, 04:15 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,455,098 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn View Post
It's a head tax except for that poverty exemption.

An actual head tax has no such exemption - EVERYBODY pays the same dollar amount.

Note that such a tax was the ONLY personal tax allowed under the Constitution when it was written. All other taxes had to be excise taxes (taxes on items such as wheat, liquor, rubber, gasoline etc.), duties (taxes on things imported or exported), and I think a few other things.

The ratification of the 16th amendment changed this, and allowed taxes on incomes for the first time in American history. (actually the govt tried to impose income taxes during the Civil War, but they were struck down as unconstitutional.)

In the original Constitution, it said that any personal taxes (called "direct taxes") must be sent to the government by the states (not by the people), and the amount must be proportional to the population of the state. That's a Head Tax.

Thanks...as I read the original Constitution (pre-16th), the states had to submit the tax but didn't they have complete discretion as to how it was levied?

And how did slaves figure into a state's tax obligation? Were slaves counted as "1" for taxes, "3/5", or some other number?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-23-2012, 04:35 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,455,098 times
Reputation: 9074
So is there a name for a "fixed sum tax with exemptions"?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:06 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top