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Old 12-06-2007, 06:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
No, he's a nut (and so are Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo, and Lou Dobbs) for conflating ordinary efforts to maintain and improve the interstate highway system into some sort of Bilderberger, Trilateral Commission effort to establish UN rule over all of the western hemipshere. It's amazing the garbage that actually gains traction in some parts these days. Iraq has WMD seems like a near miss in comparison to much of this stuff...

You apparently have some of the actual conspiracy theorist confused with Ron Paul. He doesn't look at this as some big conspiracy, but rather an issue that is in the process and is getting surprisingly little press. I lived in Dallas for 6 years and I can remember when this topic was actually talked about openly by state lawmakers regarding the TTC and how it would eventually cross into Mexico and run north to Canada. Then as word began to spread and resistance started to build, it became very hush hush in hopes to kill the resistance. Some people latched on to this quietness as "proof" that it is some big sinister conspiracy that will cause America to implode, and that it is coming in the next couple of years and we will all die. Its the level of alarmism similar to global warming where bits of information are tied to massive hysteria and sensationalism to push the facts into the realm of science fiction while trying to pretend they are still facts.

Ron Paul's main concern is 2 things: national sovereignty and private property rights. Whether or not the TTC actually gets all the support it needs to meet some of the initially discussed ideas about stretching from Mexico to Canada is something that will play out, and even if it does come to pass, it would be 2-3 decades before such a project could be completed, if they hurry. However, with the TTC being a likely first link in the potential, Ron Paul is against it because he doesn't want a fast lane crossing the border from Mexico with no customs, and he doesn't want the government claiming thousands upon thousands of acres with imminent domain.

But of course, since there aren't plans on the table and dirt already broken in every state including Canada and Mexico, its just a nut job conspiracy.
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
You apparently have some of the actual conspiracy theorist confused with Ron Paul. He doesn't look at this as some big conspiracy, but rather an issue that is in the process and is getting surprisingly little press.
It's a highway improvement project. They are ongoing all over the country all of the time. How interesting are such things? If you'd like, I can give Ron Paul credit for being probably the least whacked out on this issue of the four persons I mentioned earlier. Still...

They don't talk about it [the NAFTA superhighway], and they might not admit it, but there's been money spent on it. There was legislation passed in the Texas legislature unanimously to put a halt on it. They're planning on millions of acres taken by eminent domain for an international highway from Mexico to Canada, which is going to make the immigration problem that much worse.
-- Ron Paul: Nov 28, 2007

Proponents envision a ten-lane colossus the width of several football fields, with freight and rail lines, fiber-optic cable lines, and oil and natural gas pipelines running alongside. This will require coordinated federal and state eminent domain actions on an unprecedented scale, as literally millions of people and businesses could be displaced. The loss of whole communities is almost certain, as planners cannot wind the highway around every quaint town, historic building, or senior citizen apartment for thousands of miles.
-- Ron Paul's Website

Over on Duncan Hunter's website, it's a twelve-lane colossus, so points to Paul for being less of an overblower than Hunter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
I lived in Dallas for 6 years and I can remember when this topic was actually talked about openly by state lawmakers regarding the TTC and how it would eventually cross into Mexico and run north to Canada.
Unless I'm mistaken, the TTC is actually a planned spur off of existing I-35 that would run eastward over to the Arkansas border. The dreaded I-35 improvement project follows...well, I-35...heading north from Ft. Worth to Oklahoma City to Wichita. It would meet up with the I-29 improvement project in Kansas City which itself already runs north from KC to the border south of Winnipeg. I-35 itself (which has been in existence since 1982) continues on along a more eastward path to Duluth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
Ron Paul's main concern is 2 things: national sovereignty and private property rights.
How does improving a highway threaten our national sovereignty? How does one expand a highway system without acquiring property for it? What was where the Pennsylvania Turnpike now is before the Pennsylvania Turnpike was built?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
Whether or not the TTC actually gets all the support it needs to meet some of the initially discussed ideas about stretching from Mexico to Canada is something that will play out, and even if it does come to pass, it would be 2-3 decades before such a project could be completed, if they hurry.
I-35 and I-29 already serve to connect Monterrey with Winnipeg. That has been the case for years. All that is in the works today are improvements to that corridor made necessary by age and increasing trade and traffic. Why, right here in the DC area, we are nearing completion of a multi-billion dollar redesign of the I-95/395/495 interchange as well as construction of the new Woodrow Wilson Bridge that carries I-95/495 across the Potomac south of the city. The latter really is a twelve-lane colossus with additional room for rail and bike and pedestrian traffic and carrying all manner of communications lines. Should we worry that the Security Council might vote to put in toll booths?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
However, with the TTC being a likely first link in the potential, Ron Paul is against it because he doesn't want a fast lane crossing the border from Mexico with no customs, and he doesn't want the government claiming thousands upon thousands of acres with imminent domain.
No customs? Where did that come from? Meanwhile, the feared potential is an already-existing reality. And as far as eminent domain goes, if Ron Paul had been President in the 1950's instead of Dwight Eisenhower, I guess we wouldn't have had an interstate highway system to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
But of course, since there aren't plans on the table and dirt already broken in every state including Canada and Mexico, its just a nut job conspiracy.
No, as I stated earlier, what's a nut job conspiracy is the construing of ongoing improvements to the interstate highway system as the work of some internationalist cabal plotting against the interests and sovereignty of the United States. It's all a bunch of hooey, and you can bet you're last Amero on that...
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,408 posts, read 7,778,986 times
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They definitely need to do something about 35. It is 2 lanes and the traffic justifies 4 lanes at least. The trucks make driving down there an adventure every time.
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,608,382 times
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I doubt the international financial industry would allow the UN to have any say in the restructuring of the world economy into an unregulated speculator's paradise.

I am not entirely convinced that the interstate highway system was such a great idea. The same amout of money spent on rail based freight and people moving might have resulted in a far more economically efficient transportation system.

Last edited by GregW; 12-06-2007 at 08:48 AM.. Reason: added thought
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:43 AM
 
6,762 posts, read 11,602,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
It's a highway improvement project. They are ongoing all over the country all of the time. How interesting are such things? If you'd like, I can give Ron Paul credit for being probably the least whacked out on this issue of the four persons I mentioned earlier. Still...
They are much larger than normal. This isn't tacking an extra lane on.

Quote:
They don't talk about it [the NAFTA superhighway], and they might not admit it, but there's been money spent on it. There was legislation passed in the Texas legislature unanimously to put a halt on it. They're planning on millions of acres taken by eminent domain for an international highway from Mexico to Canada, which is going to make the immigration problem that much worse.
-- Ron Paul: Nov 28, 2007

Proponents envision a ten-lane colossus the width of several football fields, with freight and rail lines, fiber-optic cable lines, and oil and natural gas pipelines running alongside. This will require coordinated federal and state eminent domain actions on an unprecedented scale, as literally millions of people and businesses could be displaced. The loss of whole communities is almost certain, as planners cannot wind the highway around every quaint town, historic building, or senior citizen apartment for thousands of miles.
-- Ron Paul's Website
Good info.

Quote:
Over on Duncan Hunter's website, it's a twelve-lane colossus, so points to Paul for being less of an overblower than Hunter.
Most of I-35 is already 6 lanes all the way through TX. Going to 10 is not much of a stretch at all.

Quote:
Unless I'm mistaken, the TTC is actually a planned spur off of existing I-35 that would run eastward over to the Arkansas border. The dreaded I-35 improvement project follows...well, I-35...heading north from Ft. Worth to Oklahoma City to Wichita. It would meet up with the I-29 improvement project in Kansas City which itself already runs north from KC to the border south of Winnipeg. I-35 itself (which has been in existence since 1982) continues on along a more eastward path to Duluth.
Yes, it goes to Kansas City which is a major port and we will be allowing Mexican trucks to travel the entire interior of the nation after entering unchecked.

Quote:
How does improving a highway threaten our national sovereignty? How does one expand a highway system without acquiring property for it? What was where the Pennsylvania Turnpike now is before the Pennsylvania Turnpike was built?
Highway improvements are always necessary. That doesn't mean their merit and objectives should not be questioned.


Quote:
No customs? Where did that come from? Meanwhile, the feared potential is an already-existing reality. And as far as eminent domain goes, if Ron Paul had been President in the 1950's instead of Dwight Eisenhower, I guess we wouldn't have had an interstate highway system to begin with.
Government taking private property is an unfortunate necessity. But it doesn't mean that massively expansive programs should be left unquestioned. No customs? Well, you get the RFID lanes for inbound cargo trucks from Mexico to cruise through at 60mph with no mandatory checkpoints, only random stoppage. This is fact as I have learned sensitive information regarding the logistics of RFID integration at the Mexican border for this project specifically. So its not fabricated.


Quote:
No, as I stated earlier, what's a nut job conspiracy is the construing of ongoing improvements to the interstate highway system as the work of some internationalist cabal plotting against the interests and sovereignty of the United States. It's all a bunch of hooey, and you can bet you're last Amero on that
Right. No one wants to water down our sovereignty. They just want us to be bound to the laws of the international community before our own in certain instances.
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:53 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,404,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
They definitely need to do something about 35. It is 2 lanes and the traffic justifies 4 lanes at least. The trucks make driving down there an adventure every time.
It's the same or similar all over. Population increases, plus trade and traffic increases for other reasons. We have a stretch of I-81 on the west side of VA that has become so clogged with trucks that the lately growing number of commuters on that road is taking their lives in their hands every time they go out there. Improvements are called for, and I think that most out that way would welcome it, rather than seeing it as some sort of scheme to subjugate the nation in any way...
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I am not entirely convinced that the interstate highway system was such a great idea. The same amout of money spent on rail based freight and people moving might have resulted in a far more economically efficient transportation system.
Well, as everyone seems to admire UPS and FedEx so much these days, you'd have to wonder why they rely principally on air and truck, and hardly at all on rail. Probably a variety of factors to look at there...
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:31 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,404,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
They are much larger than normal. This isn't tacking an extra lane on.
But aren't you about to say that Most of I-35 is already 6 lanes all the way through TX. Going to 10 is not much of a stretch at all? So, which is it? Grossly humongous, or no big deal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
Yes, it goes to Kansas City which is a major port and we will be allowing Mexican trucks to travel the entire interior of the nation after entering unchecked.
I-35 goes to Kansas City. It does that now, and has done so for more than two decades. The dreaded TTC would meanwhile go east off I-35 to the Arkansas border? Yes? No?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
Government taking private property is an unfortunate necessity. But it doesn't mean that massively expansive programs should be left unquestioned.
Goes without saying. Should probably prepare an environmental impact study, too. Eminent domain is meanwhile a part of the social fabric and has been part of our legal tradition since before any of our laws even were laws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
No customs? Well, you get the RFID lanes for inbound cargo trucks from Mexico to cruise through at 60mph with no mandatory checkpoints, only random stoppage.
RFID is a highly sophisticated and efficient system. No stupid bottlenecks with miles amd miles of trucks backed up at the border because a couple of guys happen to be suffering from Montezuma's Revenge that day. Similar to SpeedPass...you're pre-cleared, you sail right through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
This is fact as I have learned sensitive information regarding the logistics of RFID integration at the Mexican border for this project specifically. So its not fabricated.
What was fabricated was the earlier suggestion that use of an RFID system was the equivalent of no customs inspections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnbound2day View Post
Right. No one wants to water down our sovereignty. They just want us to be bound to the laws of the international community before our own in certain instances.
While unsubstantiated, how is this in any case related to the desire to permit both car and truck operators to move more safely and more efficiently over I-35 and/or I-29?
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:57 AM
 
11,135 posts, read 14,158,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
It's a highway improvement project. They are ongoing all over the country all of the time. How interesting are such things? If you'd like, I can give Ron Paul credit for being probably the least whacked out on this issue of the four persons I mentioned earlier. Still...

No, as I stated earlier, what's a nut job conspiracy is the construing of ongoing improvements to the interstate highway system as the work of some internationalist cabal plotting against the interests and sovereignty of the United States. It's all a bunch of hooey, and you can bet you're last Amero on that...
It was suggested at the debate, and I use this term loosely that Ron Paul was a conspiracy theorist for saying such a hwy project either existed or was planned. On this, it is clear there is a project to create such a highway and in the context of this discussion, we will just focus on its existence or proposed existence. At which point, I must note the Alberta, Canada's own website to show a proposal they have publicly released.

Government of Alberta: NAFTA Trade Corridors & State Truck Standards (broken link)

I will go one further and envision that at every exit there will be a beautiful woman handing out caviar on Ritz crackers and serving snapple to wash it down. I'm sure there are those who will "envision" it in many different ways but however it is envisioned, and for whatever purpose, cabal or no cabal this is in the works.

I'm certainly no immigration Armaddonist but it is a serious issue if for no other reason than border security and the potential danger that exist from having porous borders.
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:28 AM
 
6,762 posts, read 11,602,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
But aren't you about to say that Most of I-35 is already 6 lanes all the way through TX. Going to 10 is not much of a stretch at all? So, which is it? Grossly humongous, or no big deal?
10 lanes of highway increased from 6 is not hard to imagine at all. The question becomes are they still planning to include railroad freight sytems that would run parallell and how big/how much, and will all of those trains be crossing the border without inspection also. TXDOT documents call for 1200' right of ways, which is quiet a bit more than is necessary for a standard 10 lane interstate system.


Quote:
I-35 goes to Kansas City. It does that now, and has done so for more than two decades. The dreaded TTC would meanwhile go east off I-35 to the Arkansas border? Yes? No?
Depends on which corridor you are referring to. There are other new corridors proposed to tie into the priority corridors.

Quote:
Goes without saying. Should probably prepare an environmental impact study, too. Eminent domain is meanwhile a part of the social fabric and has been part of our legal tradition since before any of our laws even were laws.
And eminent domain has its place. Its not always carried out properly and should always be able to be challenged lest we just turn over the rest of our rights with our property.


Quote:
RFID is a highly sophisticated and efficient system. No stupid bottlenecks with miles amd miles of trucks backed up at the border because a couple of guys happen to be suffering from Montezuma's Revenge that day. Similar to SpeedPass...you're pre-cleared, you sail right through.
I'm no expert on RFID, but I'm married to an expert that worked with it extensively for 7 years. While cargo is cleared and safe to fly right through, it is no guarantee that everything else is safe and should be allowed unchecked. There are many flaws that are constantly being worked out and updated with RFID systems upon integration.

Quote:
What was fabricated was the earlier suggestion that use of an RFID system was the equivalent of no customs inspections.
The suggestion is that customs issues will exist quiet expansively as these corridors are opened up and that seems to be an afterthought right now. But then again there are more and more people supporting an open border, so maybe a lot of people are happy erasing our borders.


Quote:
While unsubstantiated, how is this in any case related to the desire to permit both car and truck operators to move more safely and more efficiently over I-35 and/or I-29?
Some people don't want open border policies that allow unchecked vehicles coming through what is currently their property or will eventually border their property. And I don't blame them.

Its a battle of ideals. Its not a matter of the NAFTA highways will end our nation, its a matter of a lot of concerned citizens not pleased with the quietness of these policies and how they may affect America as we know it. Unconcerned citizens can go back to sleep as this obviously is of no interest to them.
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