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Old 08-22-2012, 02:13 AM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,608,410 times
Reputation: 1552

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Have you ever read the Lincoln-Douglas debates?

The topic was slavery, and unlike modern presidential debates, they were executed at a fairly high level of reason, intelligence, and sophistication. Why? Obviously, there was not the demand for superficial personal charisma back then that today's media culture demands. More importantly, Lincoln and Douglas could debate at this high level because they shared common ground and spoke the same language of Anglo-Christian civilization.

That common ground seems to be entirely gone. And without a moral common ground, debate and rational argument is not possible. We don't understand each other anymore, and increasingly we don't even try to make ourselves understood. We're at an impasse, a standoff, and it doesn't bode well for the future.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:15 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,094 posts, read 26,017,688 times
Reputation: 6128
Yep - I often feel that I am debating with people who speak a different language.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:23 AM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,204,998 times
Reputation: 9623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier View Post
Yep - I often feel that I am debating with people who speak a different language.
You're not alone. Our nation is divided. The polarization has become very clear these past four years. Battle lines have been drawn. The coming election will in many ways determine the fate of our society.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:32 AM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,608,410 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
You're not alone. Our nation is divided. The polarization has become very clear these past four years. Battle lines have been drawn. The coming election will in many ways determine the fate of our society.
Fr. George Rutler believes it may well be America's last free election.

Here's what I see happening in the short term:

1. The middle is disappearing.

2. Both the Left and the Right are growing.

3. The Left is growing the fastest.

4. The Right is coalescing around the Catholic Church.

That means that, in the near future, the Left will definitely be in charge, but there will be a newly invigorated and robust right-wing minority. NOT a recipe for civil tranquility.
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:35 AM
 
Location: Lost in Texas
9,827 posts, read 6,938,737 times
Reputation: 3416
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Fr. George Rutler believes it may well be America's last free election.

Here's what I see happening in the short term:

1. The middle is disappearing.

2. Both the Left and the Right are growing.

3. The Left is growing the fastest.

4. The Right is coalescing around the Catholic Church.

That means that, in the near future, the Left will definitely be in charge, but there will be a newly invigorated and robust right-wing minority. NOT a recipe for civil tranquility.
What did Lincoln say about a house divided?
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:13 AM
 
2,385 posts, read 1,588,365 times
Reputation: 923
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Fr. George Rutler believes it may well be America's last free election.

Here's what I see happening in the short term:

1. The middle is disappearing.

2. Both the Left and the Right are growing.

3. The Left is growing the fastest.

4. The Right is coalescing around the Catholic Church.

That means that, in the near future, the Left will definitely be in charge, but there will be a newly invigorated and robust right-wing minority. NOT a recipe for civil tranquility.
So, who will rule this country? The Commies or the Nazis?
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,142 posts, read 10,714,981 times
Reputation: 9799
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Have you ever read the Lincoln-Douglas debates?

The topic was slavery, and unlike modern presidential debates, they were executed at a fairly high level of reason, intelligence, and sophistication. Why? Obviously, there was not the demand for superficial personal charisma back then that today's media culture demands. More importantly, Lincoln and Douglas could debate at this high level because they shared common ground and spoke the same language of Anglo-Christian civilization.

That common ground seems to be entirely gone. And without a moral common ground, debate and rational argument is not possible. We don't understand each other anymore, and increasingly we don't even try to make ourselves understood. We're at an impasse, a standoff, and it doesn't bode well for the future.
I think you hit the nail on the head in the third sentence. We the people no longer demand that our elected officials be the smartest, only that they be charismatic. Honestly, I feel that the situation is the end result of having a two party system that is controlled by special interests. The primaries are a farce, as the winner is going to be whoever the core of the party backs the most, and by the time the election rolls around we are stuck with a choice of Tweedle-Dee or Tweedle-Dum. Unfortunately, the Tweedle twins aren't the best people for the job, only the most charismatic or the ones most likely to kow-tow to the special interests.

I would love to see a third party rise up that is based on sheer common sense and has the goal of increasing education, placing absolute limits on government power and spending, and realizes that what the neighbor does with their personal life (within reason, I'm not promoting private crack houses here) doesn't affect you in the slightest.

Unfortunately, common sense has gone the way of the honest and intelligent politician. Now we're left with the people that are stupid enough to actually want to be elected officials.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:40 PM
 
16,431 posts, read 22,204,998 times
Reputation: 9623
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsjustmeagain View Post
So, who will rule this country? The Commies or the Nazis?
Hopefully, the people, as intended by the Constitution.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:47 PM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,060,237 times
Reputation: 15038
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
Lincoln and Douglas could debate at this high level because they shared common ground and spoke the same language of Anglo-Christian civilization.
There was an "Anglo-Christian" common ground about slavery. TFF.

Anglo-Christian... why don't you folks just come on out and say what the frack you really mean.

Anglo-Christian
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Atlantis
3,016 posts, read 3,911,569 times
Reputation: 8867
Quote:
Originally Posted by freightshaker View Post
What did Lincoln say about a house divided?
I think he said that if that happened, he would raise an army of Americans to invade the sovereign states of other Americans and start a totally unecessary war based on increasing the power of the federal government and northern mercantilists while subjegating sovereign states and destroying constitutional law.
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