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How many times do you have to be told this: AP is NOT a program - it's a series of exams designed to test knowledge and college level proficiency that anyone, including IB students, can take. It's nonsensical to compare the rigors of the IB program to the rigors of the (nonexistent) "AP program" in the way you are.
Oh here we go. You're right, hammertime33. AP is NOT a program(me). Program me ...... get it?
AP courses and exams are college-level and have been vetted with U.S. Universities against 101 Freshman uni courses and exams by The College Board.
IB is college-preparatory and is sold on hearsay. "Rigor" is a relative term and the fact that "harsh and unyielding" comprise part of its definition, I do not view IB's use of the word rigor or rigorous ad nauseum, as a positive.
Yes. That is exactly what you and many others have posted. If an IB student wants any more than a limited amount of college credit, OR wants a college-level challenge, they MUST take AP classes/exams IN ADDITION TO their IB program.
IB IS self-limiting, by design. I posted the IB website explanation that an IB Diploma student takes ONLYTHREE HL classes/exams.
As even you have pointed out, IB is a college prep program - it is NOT, like AP, designed as a series of college placement exams. IB is so much more rigorous than the standard US high school course of study that every US college and university (that I'm aware of) looks at its internal testing and says, "damn, they really teach these kids in IB - we'll go ahead give them college credit and advanced placement for good scores on their high level exams and even some of their standard level exams" (and many IB students take 4 HL and 2 SL exams, not the 3/3 split). Some colleges like CU Boulder consider it so rigorous they simply give IB students extra elective credits (in addition to any specific college credit their HL (and SL for the languages) IB exam scores entitle them to) simply for having an IB diploma.
Your "self-limiting" comment is beyond absurd. I don't know any other college prep program that is treated that way by US colleges and universities. Do you? Does IB forbid its students from taking AP exams? If IB is "self-limiting" then what phrase do you use to describe the course of study undertaken by the average US high school student who takes 0 AP exams, 0 IB exams, has 0 college credits when entering college, and has to take several remedial classes just to get up to basic standards?
This is one strange thread IMO. I have to say its one of the odder crusades I've ever seen on here, and that's saying something.
Anyway, I have worked in Higher Ed for years and I have never heard anyone claim that IB was inferior to AP. They are both held in high regard and are seen as 1. the same in quality or 2. IB as better. This is the first I am hearing otherwise.
The only complaint I have ever heard about IB in the admissions community was that it is not as flexible as AP. You can't pick and choose which subject you want to take, you have to do the whole thing. But that's about it. If an app from an IB student comes in, folks assume the kid is smart.
Such strangeness is getting more an more common these days. You never know what is going to be labeled as a "threat" to "American Values" anymore.
Thank you for joining the thread. It's always good to hear from those who are employed by our colleges and universities. Are you a Professor or do you work in the undergrad admissions center?
As even you have pointed out, IB is a college prep program - it is NOT, like AP, designed as a series of college placement exams.
No. AP is not only exams.
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IB is so much more rigorous than the standard US high school course of study
More rigorous than the standard US high school course of study? Yes. More rigorous than AP? No. IB is self-admittedlyMUCH MORE LIMITING than AP.
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Your "self-limiting" comment is beyond absurd.
An IB student is LIMITED to only 3 HL courses/exams. IB is indeed self-limiting UNLESS one steps up to the more rigorous AP program and takes extra AP classes/exams in addition to their IB program.
If you IB supporters believe in the pooling of students from all academic abilities into any given IB course will produce higher achieving students across the board, you're drinking the kool-aid.
Nope. But I'm going to flip that on you. IB does forbid AP students who are not enrolled in an IB school from taking IB exams.
Perhaps they are afraid of actual quantitative data being developed which would reveal IB's serious academic inferiority?
IB has been marketed based on hearsay, elitist arrogance and frankly, BS platitudes and cries of self-righteous greatness by IB alumni and change-agents. We have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the strategy to expand IB in American public schools is completely and entirely POLITICAL.
IB is the Emperor with no clothes. As soon as you seek real data, real standards, real syllabi, real FACTS about this shady organization and its products, you get attacked for being an "ignorant, right-wing, tinfoil hat wearing, xenophobic, paranoid, conspiracy theorist."
Stop it. We're so over the Alinsky tactics, censorship and Delphi Technique.
I also want to make it clear that this topic is not limited to the IB Diploma Programme. IB has three (3) political indoctrination programmes, not just one, and they are going after babies from Age 3. The PYP and MYP are the two IB programmes which IB "developed" in the 1990's and which IB is "strategically planning" to put its efforts into expanding. Neither the PYP nor the MYP are curricula. They are a "framework" of "6 themes" which encompass the "Learner Profile". IBO mandates that the PYP be implemented SCHOOLWIDE. This is unAmerican and unacceptable.
Last edited by ObserverNY; 08-27-2012 at 09:08 AM..
ALL AP exams are college level. Students can take as many of them as they choose.
Wow. I know I'm probably wasting my time, but here it goes anyway.
Students can only take as many AP courses as offered by their particular school. Also, some schools do not let just any student into AP courses. The AP opportunities and access vary widely among schools, as does the teaching quality. It is NOT across the board "better" than IB.
That said, they are both good options for an advanced student. I'm just trying to make a dent in this perception that AP is always great everywhere.
In my opinion, IB is a better all around experience for a very smart, highly motivated kid who is good in multiple subjects. AP is probably better if a student wants to narrow in on the subjects where they have a high level of interest and/or aptitude. Both will accord you the option to skip a few freshman level classes if you so desire, but honestly that's not always a good idea depending on the college.
The bone of contention here is seems to center around the idea that IB does not teach that the American way is the only way. It is the program modeled after the curriculum received by kids of diplomats, so yeah they are not going to teach anyone to think anyone way is the only way to see any issue. What they try to get across is your way of looking at an issue may be valid, but other people can hold differing opinions without necessarily being crazy, stupid or evil. This is something that seems to be sorely lacking in this thread. LOL. That is not the same as teaching that Americans are evil or wrong. If you consider that many different kids from multiple countries and religions were in the same class receiving instruction when this was developed, then of course it would make sense that would be the approach.
To me it makes sense to have both as an option and let each school district decide what option they want to offer to their advanced students. Each has its trade offs, each has its strengths. I'm not sure what is to be gained from shutting off options for every school district in the country.
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