Should the U.S. withdraw from UNESCO and ban IB in U.S. public schools? (employment, Brown)

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

You'd have to take the AP exams in those subjects if you want any college credit. Colleges don't award credit for that many IB classes (only 3 IB classes, according to the college dean).

depends on the college. Most selective colleges want to see advanced coursework, and like AP, postAP and/or IB classes. Not sure about the credit, as my kid did AP not IB, but I would think most would take IB.

Some kids do well with AP, some with IB. IB has more writing and essays generally than IB, is my understanding.

If AP goes international are the nutsos going to turn on it too? Just hostile to everything "international" ?

[gallowsCalibrator]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

That's what the college dean said, too. IB isn't recognized as enough of a challenge. Colleges recognize AP classes and exams as more challenging and they award more credit for AP.

That's because the AP course is pretty much the exact college class and the AP exam is the college exam. Just because a student took an AP class doesn't automatically give them credit. You have to take the exam and get at least a 3 on it for it to give you college credits. I know plenty of students who took AP European History but didn't feel like taking the exam... so they got no college credit for completing the college-level class.

And, from my experience, the IB version of same classes is harder. I'm not ashamed to admit it, but I had to drop from IB Spanish IV to AP Spanish IV because going from Japanese to that class was too much on me. I couldn't make the switch from one language to another fast enough and my grade in that class suffered for it. AP Spanish IV was much easier.

Something else to consider is that AP classes are just that: classes. IB is an entire learning track complete with extra curricular requirements, as well as strict academic ones. Heck, one of the graduating requirements is "At least five years of study in one foreign language, or 3 years each of at least two foreign languages". A basic high school diploma didn't require any foreign language, and the Advanced Studies (this is not an AP diploma) was three years.

[gallowsCalibrator]

Originally Posted by DewDropInn

Thanks for sharing that. (I'd have LOVED to have been in your English class. My kind of teacher. ) I expressed the opinion that that's exactly the education we should give our children over on the Education IB thread.

I got called a few choice names (I think Commie was tossed into the mix), and my patriotism was questioned. (Which just exposed the ignorance of some posters since I've made my love for my country clear on more than one thread.)

Good to hear you had such a positive experience. Sounds like a GREAT education to me. Lucky you!!

Wow. I didn't realize that there was so much hatred for specialized learning track.

You'd think people would be happy that kids were given the opportunity to learn at a level that actually challenged them.

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

An emphasis on social and global justice is a political position.

The only emphasis on social and global justice was the requirement of doing volunteer work. Me? I did mine by being an assistant counselor for a low-income daycare/summercare.

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

Hmmm... My kids read those in Junior High, 7th and 8th grades.

To be fair, I had read them as well. But to re-read them (and be given two days per book to do so) and discuss/debate certain points that I had maybe skimmed over or not paid as much attention to? Refreshing. It wasn't a bad introduction to IB (this was my ninth grade teacher).

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

You'd have to take the AP exams in those subjects if you want any college credit. Colleges don't award credit for that many IB classes (only 3 IB classes, according to the college dean).

Just like you'd have to take the AP exam in those subjects if you took the standard class. No difference there.

[Sci Fi Fan]

Originally Posted by ObserverNY

IBO is an NGO of UNESCO. It's program(mes) are VERY expensive, eliminate choice entirely at the elementary level and reduce Advanced Placement options at the HS level. Over the past three years, I have met with and spoken with parents from around the country whose communities have been divided by controversy over this "educational program".

Not true. Not only do many IB programs complement AP courses and allow the students to take AP exams through said classes, IB students consistently perform far better on SATs and in college. Really, given the sorry state of our education system (I blame anti-intellectual culture), I don’t think this is the first place to cut.

[twinArmageddons]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

That's what the college dean said, too. IB isn't recognized as enough of a challenge. Colleges recognize AP classes and exams as more challenging and they award more credit for AP.

It's not that IB isn't enough of a challenge.

IB's more of a challenge than AP, anyone who says otherwise hasn't gone through either program.

It's that they crave more challenge on top of the IB challenge.

[ObserverNY]

Originally Posted by transatlantic

"..universities like Oxford recognize an American HS diploma.." No they don't. To enter an Oxford or Cambridge college, an American must already have a Bachelor's Degree from a U.S. university. It is possible to gain entrance to some of the "red-brick" universities with 2 years of U.S. college which is considered in the UK to be the equivalent of "A" levels... or the IB. The same is true of all universities in Europe. The American High School diploma is not recognized.

I'm sorry, but you are misinformed.

A Guide to Oxford for American Students.

[ObserverNY]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

IB exam scores are also not given much credit in Colleges and Universities here in the U.S., mostly because IB is not college-level and is only college prep. What do universities need to know about the Diploma Programme?

Colleges and Universities in the U.S. look much more favorably on AP classes and exam scores. AP vs. IB? - Ask The Dean

My advice... skip the IB schools/programs and go with schools that offer AP classes and exams.

IB is groupthink indoctrination. AP is college-level material taught to qualifying high school students.

Excellent post. Everything you have stated is factual and non-emotional. Much appreciated.

[ObserverNY]

Originally Posted by gallowsCalibrator

I don't see how an education track can indoctrinate a person politically....[SNIP]....

I'm not sure how things are in other IB schools or tracks, but the version I was in was literally the best learning environment I had ever experienced.

Spanish
Japanese
European History
Politics and Government
Statistics
English
Physics
Chemistry

Just to name a few IB classes I took and took the AP exam for.

Since you have decided to address the issue from a first-person, hearsay, anonymous experience rather than referencing actual facts, regulations or laws governing public education, please don't take offense at any of the following questions which will call into question your claims:

1. Was there an application/pre-qualification process to be admitted to your particular HS?
2. What year did you graduate HS?
3. Did you earn the IB Diploma? If yes, what was your overall score?
4. Did you take TOK?
5. Of the courses you listed above, IB does not offer either Politics & Government or Statistics. Were your other courses SL or HL? How many HL? How many SL?
6. Did your school district or your parents pay for the IB/AP exam fees?

Thank you.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by Bideshi

One well known homeschool program, Abeka, uses video recordings of class lectures combined with book work. It's like sitting in the actual classroom. Our children were so far ahead of public school students that they aced the GED after Grade 10 and entered college two years early. Both have now graduated from fully accredited Universities and our son has a Master's Degree. I recommend it highly.

ABEKA is a Christian curriculum with a heavy emphasis on the Bible.

While some of the program is very good, I find their biology courses to be highly suspect. The GED, btw, is not a complete exam on all high school content, so getting the GED doesn't necessarily mean you have graduated high school unless you continue your education.

My daughter could have passed the GED in 7th or 8th grade, but it would not have been productive in terms of her educational needs. Many students today are taking college classes in community colleges for dual credit.

[nana053]

There are many colleges that accept the IB diploma and the number is growing.

Brown University for one

Brown University was one of the first colleges to accord credit for IB work. Brown recognizes that the IB represents achievement beyond most standard high school programs; advanced placement and standing is therefore regularly granted. Three higher level courses can be assigned six course credits at Brown. With departmental approval, a standard level course with a superior mark may be counted for one credit. Accreditation falls within the providence of the Dean of the College.

Rutgers is another

University IB policy

Students may be awarded credits through the combination of advanced placement examinations, the College Level Examination Program, International Baccalaureate and proficiency examinations. Credits earned through these methods are not computed in the cumulative grade-point average. Academic departments determine if such courses and/or credits are applicable to the major, minor, or liberal arts distribution requirements.

Degree credit may be awarded for International Baccalaureate Higher Level scores of 7, 6, and 5. Credit is not given for grades of 4 or lower or for Standard Level exams.

Harvard for another

Students who have earned the International Baccalaureate (IB) diploma with a grade of 7 on at least three Higher Level examinations may qualify for Advanced Standing. Students wishing to use IB exams for Advanced Standing should request that the IB Americas' office send an official IB transcript directly to Harvard.

Credit toward the bachelor's degree for new students not admitted as transfer students is offered only on the basis of AP or IB examinations (or other reviewed international credentials). The College does not grant credit toward a Harvard degree for courses taken at other universities prior to matriculation. Therefore, students wishing to be eligible for Advanced Standing are advised to sit for the AP examinations in fields they have already studied, whether or not they participated in a formal AP course in secondary school. Students may learn about AP examinations by writing to the Program Director, College Board Advanced Placement Examinations, Box 977, Princeton, New Jersey 08540.

Many more are listed here.
http://www.ibo.org/country/US/index.cfm

Note that if your purpose is only to earn credits, the AP classes may fit. The IB program, however, emphasizes critical thinking, writing and essays which the AP classes are weaker on, imo. The math and science APs are excellent, but I don't think you can beat IB when it comes to the English or History component (yeah, I know the antis here think history is distorted in IB, but frankly, it gives a wider perspective).