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Clinton was a mediocre President which puts him two cuts above the last two bums.
I think he and W were about comparable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo
Newt saved him.
I have to agree. That being said, Clinton was willing to work with "the other side." That's admirable and just a decade and a half later an extreme rarity.
Overall Clinton was a good president. While we hope they don't behave poorly they too are human. my biggest issue was that he catered to the gay vote but then did nothing for it... DADT was a disgrace.
He failed at going after Bin Laden (possibly due to his lead officers not taking his direction) We were largely safe, he did great work on reversing the damage to the debt we had under Reagan. He was a deal maker and as such he compromised too much.
He was part of a cleaver team and they are very successful together. Overall a good president.
If Clinton had 1 redeeming value it was that he could reach accross party lines to get things done. I am no great fan of his, but like Reagan we was able to compromise and work to gain consensus.
We hear everyday those rebulicans wont cooperate. Cooperation goes both ways, it requires inclusion. The current admin from day one worked to exclude. A strong leader finds a way to make consensus happen. Clinton did very well in this regard.
Someone mentioned 911.
The hijackers were hear training in country before Bush took office. Who allowed them in?
Who built firewalls between the Intellegence community and law enforcement?
Who allowed 911? Our elected leaders all of them. The Federal Gov.
The alleged intel that GWB supposedly ignored was vague at best.
Like saying there will be a bank robbery in NY city. Which bank? What time? What day? Hell what year?
Do the banks close indefinetly? Do we pay cops over time to guard every bank? Do triple the size of the police department?
Clinton had many faults, but he was a leader.
Clinton could have blocked NAFTA, he thought it was a good idea and pushed it forward. Perfectly reasonable to bring up when judging Clinton as president and the effects of his presidency on the nation. Sure, you have to find the GOP culpable too, but Clinton is culpable for NAFTA. A defense for murder is not "a posse helped me do it."
Also, Clinton reversed his campaign pledge by granting Most Favored Nation Status to allow more China trade. Not sure this was a good idea either.
Also, what are you suggesting when you say Bush "allowed" 9-11 to happen? Hopefully, not that he wanted it to happen. Once again though, you are using the Bush defense. Just because Bush may have screwed up, does not exonerate Clinton screwing up beforehand. Bin Laden attacked America multiple times under Clinton and Clinton did not get him and was rumored to have turned down the chance to take him out.
Clinton campaigned on the prospect of looking forward to signing NAFTA. It was his signature legislation.
To me, Bill Clinton was both the best and worst a president could be. I voted for him, but I would not have voted for him again after his sleazy escapades. I was appalled. But there is no denying that the man was/is brilliant, and he loved his country.
As an old fashioned guy, I expect the POTUS to bring intellect, courage, character, and dignity to the office. But they all fall short in some ways. Some important, some not. For this thread, I'd enjoy hearing impressions of Clinton (good and bad), and of the role of leadership and imperfection in the White House. For instance, I would submit that George H. W. Bush brought much more dignity to the office, but Clinton was a better president. So, we are looking for leadership, and since all presidents are humans, fallibility comes with it.
How will history view Clinton and other recent presidents?
Overall, and on balance ... Clinton was a good President. I voted for him, twice. However, I thought he should have been removed from office for the lies he told regarding his sexual addiction/misbehaving while President.
I'm a Democrat, though I don't always vote that way. I have voted for Republicans.
First and foremost, the first few times I heard Clinton speak, I thought he was smarmy. It is very transparent. How America found this man charming is beyond me. But, then, the average American is an idiot, it seems.
Second, he presided in an expansionary period, between two recessions (the lull in the economy during Bush, the Dad, and the lull in the economy circa 9/11). His timing couldn't have been better. It would have been interesting to see how he would have navigated more turbulent waters.
Third, the tax rates were in fact raised during his administration. People have forgotten that. That does help the country's coffers.
Fourth, the list of pardons was ridiculous, including that slimeball with the last name of Rich from Manhattan.
Fifth, Monica Lewinsky. There's the proof in the pudding that he was smarmy. Hillary could have very well divorced him after they left the White House, but she was hanging on for more, such as another run at the White House, which she couldn't have pulled off as a divorced woman. We needed a Clinton dynasty in the White House as much as we needed a Bush dynasty.
I think the unenlightened will view him as a good President. I think those who look at his performance in context will view him as an average President.
I honestly don't know how I feel about Clinton. I have oscillated back and forth ranking him kinda high to slightly below average.
Here are a few reasons why I might rank him average without mentioning the scandal:
1) He benefited from being president when the internet burst onto the scene and helped business. This was a huge benefit to his presidency and had nothing really to do with him and more to do with happenstance. The internet was going to happen at that time had someone else been president.
2) He gets credit for a balanced budget, but...
--A) It was the GOP 1994 contract with America that initiated the balanced budget
--B) Even after the GOP won the 1994 midterm promising a balanced budget, Clinton said in November 1994 that he OPPOSED a balanced budget and said as late as February 1995 that he would not support a balanced budget as it was not a priority.
--C) Every single budget that Clinton sent to congress had a clear deficit. Granted these deficits were small, but how anyone pushes the credit to him for a balanced budget when he is blatantly asking congress to not have one is beyond me.
--D) There never was a truly balanced budget as the US Treasury shows an increase in the national debt for every fiscal year since 1957. Granted, the deficits were very small, especially compared to Obama or even Bush.
3) NAFTA -- not sure it has been a success.
4) Permanent Most Favored Nation Status granted to China -- not sure it has been a success.
5) Real Estate Bubble grew under him, some of his actions helped cause this.
6) Dot Com stock bubble grew under him and he encouraged it a bit.
7) He was "proud" to sign GOP created repeal of Glass Steagall.
8) The Bush Sr. Recession had actually ended before Clinton was sworn in as there was good economic growth in Bush Sr.'s last quarter. Somehow, people attribute Clinton for the policies that pulled us out of a recession before he was president and actually started before he was elected.
9) Was the initial president who failed to get Bin Laden after the 1st WTC attack and other attacks on his watch.
10) For his Presidency, Clinton withheld medical information that might have affected the outcome of the election. That bit of information was having to have surgery to correct a "perforated Septum" from continuous and heavy cocaine use. If it had become known that he was a cocaine addict, he may never have been elected.
I'm a Democrat, though I don't always vote that way. I have voted for Republicans.
First and foremost, the first few times I heard Clinton speak, I thought he was smarmy. It is very transparent. How America found this man charming is beyond me. But, then, the average American is an idiot, it seems.
Second, he presided in an expansionary period, between two recessions (the lull in the economy during Bush, the Dad, and the lull in the economy circa 9/11). His timing couldn't have been better. It would have been interesting to see how he would have navigated more turbulent waters.
Third, the tax rates were in fact raised during his administration. People have forgotten that. That does help the country's coffers.
Fourth, the list of pardons was ridiculous, including that slimeball with the last name of Rich from Manhattan.
Fifth, Monica Lewinsky. There's the proof in the pudding that he was smarmy. Hillary could have very well divorced him after they left the White House, but she was hanging on for more, such as another run at the White House, which she couldn't have pulled off as a divorced woman. We needed a Clinton dynasty in the White House as much as we needed a Bush dynasty.
I think the unenlightened will view him as a good President. I think those who look at his performance in context will view him as an average President.
Great post! I personally was amazed by Clinton's intellect, but I also found him smarmy. And the Lewinsky thing strikes me the same way.You bring up a great point that the perception of Clinton is strongly favored by the fact that he was the face on the 1990s expansion.You bring up a great point that the perception of Clinton is strongly favored by the fact that he was the face on the 1990s expansion. All things considered, I would give Clinton a solid B+, with the recognition that his personal baggage prevented him from getting the A. For comparison, I would give Carter a B-, Reagan an A-, Bush I a B, W a D, and Obama (so far) a B. So, Clinton is above average, but not by much, for all the reasons mentioned.
To me, Bill Clinton was both the best and worst a president could be. I voted for him, but I would not have voted for him again after his sleazy escapades. I was appalled. But there is no denying that the man was/is brilliant, and he loved his country.
As an old fashioned guy, I expect the POTUS to bring intellect, courage, character, and dignity to the office. But they all fall short in some ways. Some important, some not. For this thread, I'd enjoy hearing impressions of Clinton (good and bad), and of the role of leadership and imperfection in the White House. For instance, I would submit that George H. W. Bush brought much more dignity to the office, but Clinton was a better president. So, we are looking for leadership, and since all presidents are humans, fallibility comes with it.
How will history view Clinton and other recent presidents?
Wow, are you ever easily impressed!
If just one of the deregulatory actions of Bill Clinton were not in place in 2008, we either would have never had a financial crisis or it would have had significantly less impact.
Moreover, if either NAFTA or the 2000 China Trade Act were not in place, US workers incomes may have helped to stave off the mortgage meltdown that helped trigger the derivatives market collapse.
Of course Clinton had a lot of help from Republicans and Democrats alike, but to conclude his actions as president led to anything except massive job outsourcing and the financial crisis of 2008 is divorced from reality.
I give credit to Clinton for having a unique ability to take credit for positive events that he had little or nothing to do with and being able to deflect blame for his true actions when they clearly have caused harm.
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