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Education doesn't always guarantee a job however. After I graduated, Bush cut all health care positions that I could have gotten at that time. I was stuck going back to my old profession which doesn't pay much. So someone needs to come up with something good! Let's hope whoever does get's into office before I die! LOL, LOL
Uh, which health care positions did Bush eliminate?
First, we should work to end welfare for illegal immigrants. This is a major drain on society. Also, you must consider, welfare is not the biggest drain on the budget system.
You're right, it's not, but it's significant enough to look at seriously. We have to start cutting our costs and this would be an excellent overall cost reduction over time.
Sorrry had to run, one of the horses next door got loose and need to be brought home. Interesting to see the replies, it looks like some here are actually interested in doing something and others, well, you descide. Shame more people are not more interested in working on solutions and I was surprised and impressed with those that did, I will keep that in mind in future discussions, if any. I was disappointed that threads such as this, there have been others by other posters in the past, die on the vine so quickly, another commentary on todays America. Good thing I plan for the worst and hope for the best.
Good Luck All, we are all going to really need it
I think IF there is a key to ending welfare it probably has something to do with education.
Not today's education. The dumbing down of America via unionized/tenured teachers is definitely not the answer. And why can't college grads get jobs above entry level?
The key to ending welfare is personal responsibility. Unfortunately, we're a couple of generations removed from that. I don't know how you can take people who have never seen parental personal responsibility in their lives and convince them it's better to pull your own weight.
Personal responsibility, by the way, includes not spewing out illegitimate kids from God knows how many baby daddies.
So many here seem to want to end welfare and since we know it will never be allowed by the voters without some sort solution for doing so would you be willing to do the following:
1. Create a vocational education system (2 years or less) that helps those that want to learn a trade or profession, with the following stipulations
The course must be completed to graduation.
That the person is assisted to find a job in their new trade but must work in that profession for a minimum of two years or they have to pay the government back for the education they received.
2. A system where vouchers are made to help cover daycare costs for children until the person is placed in a working position.
3. Those that cannot work such as the elderly or disabled are placed on a system that helps ensure they get their basic needs met.
4. Free healthcare for those attending vocational and ends once they are back to work.
5. Ban for life anyone caught committing fraud or refusing to attend schooling or unwilling to accept work after graduation.
6. Once everyone that is on the educational program, is put on another program or kicked off then end welfare as we know it.
Yes I know that some of these programs will cost money, but the way I look at it it is investing money in America's future and in the future of Millions of Americans and we would all benefit. I would also add that I believe the numbers of people and the costs would drop dramatically once more people go through the program and go to work, not to mention the fact that many that may have thought they were going to live off the government realize they will have to work will avoid the wrong path from the beginning.
Anyway it is just a thought, would you agree to such a method of reform or do you have a better idea other than simply killing it off and not replacing it with something else.
I'd gladly agree to all of that with a couple of stipulations (such as the relocation allowance already mentioned in this thread).
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasper12
Those things are already in place. The problem is, the welfare Mama's don't want to work. Or go to school. They use up the 24 months of benefits, doctor shopping, to get on Social Security, to keep the gravy boat going.
Get the mind set, of folks who just want free rent, free food, don't want to work.
Having worked closely with some of those "welfare mamas" as you so politely put it, I think you're way off. The majority of welfare recipients I've met would much prefer to be working for a living, but don't have the job skills, education, or in some cases a means of transportation to make it feasible. A program that gave them the education and skills to compete in the job market, and offered job placement? Most of them would jump at the chance.
So many here seem to want to end welfare and since we know it will never be allowed by the voters without some sort solution for doing so would you be willing to do the following:
1. Create a vocational education system (2 years or less) that helps those that want to learn a trade or profession, with the following stipulations
The course must be completed to graduation.
That the person is assisted to find a job in their new trade but must work in that profession for a minimum of two years or they have to pay the government back for the education they received.
2. A system where vouchers are made to help cover daycare costs for children until the person is placed in a working position.
3. Those that cannot work such as the elderly or disabled are placed on a system that helps ensure they get their basic needs met.
4. Free healthcare for those attending vocational and ends once they are back to work.
5. Ban for life anyone caught committing fraud or refusing to attend schooling or unwilling to accept work after graduation.
6. Once everyone that is on the educational program, is put on another program or kicked off then end welfare as we know it.
Yes I know that some of these programs will cost money, but the way I look at it it is investing money in America's future and in the future of Millions of Americans and we would all benefit. I would also add that I believe the numbers of people and the costs would drop dramatically once more people go through the program and go to work, not to mention the fact that many that may have thought they were going to live off the government realize they will have to work will avoid the wrong path from the beginning.
Anyway it is just a thought, would you agree to such a method of reform or do you have a better idea other than simply killing it off and not replacing it with something else.
Replacing a socialist program with another socialist program?
NO. 99% of those millions of so-called unfortunate Americans are there because they cannot be helped. They've reaped what they've sowed. Eliminate welfare completely not replace it with another socialist program. These leeches will then have to get off their lazy collective butts and do something about it. People will find a job if they can't eat and if not the taxpayer still does not have to take care of them. Welfare was supposed to help them get off their feet in the first place, but most took advantage of it. What benefit does it have to society to "help" these people? I guarantee most will amount too nothing. We need to toughen up and realize that helping the poor doesn't help anyone, but a brainwashed guilty conscience.
Replacing a socialist program with another socialist program?
NO. 99% of those millions of so-called unfortunate Americans are there because they cannot be helped. They've reaped what they've sowed. Eliminate welfare completely not replace it with another socialist program. These leeches will then have to get off their lazy collective butts and do something about it. People will find a job if they can't eat and if not the taxpayer still does not have to take care of them. Welfare was supposed to help them get off their feet in the first place, but most took advantage of it. What benefit does it have to society to "help" these people? I guarantee most will amount too nothing. We need to toughen up and realize that helping the poor doesn't help anyone, but a brainwashed guilty conscience.
Well, that's open minded of you...
Nice statistics. Got any studies that back up the 99% numer, or are you just exaggerating to make your point? I'll assume the latter, and run with it. The majority of people I've known that were welfare recipients were not lazy, helpless, or unemployable. What they were was down on their luck. While yes, there are some that take advantage of the system, I know very few that want to stay on it any longer than absolutely necessary.
For that matter, there was a point in my childhood when my parents were receiving food stamps. Not because they were lazy (I can remember both of my parents working 2 jobs to make ends meet), but because they didn't have a choice at the time and it was either go on food stamps or watch their children starve. Personally, I'm kind of glad they didn't take the second option.
However, you'd prefer to just end welfare altogether and watch people starve than to offer them a way to improve themselves and join the forces of the employed? Guess you aren't one of those "compassionate conservatives." I would say I hope you and your loved ones never have to face being unemployed and destitute, but I'm sure with your inflated sense of your own rightness you don't believe that could ever happen.
Trade schools used to exist in many high schools. They offered HS students the opportunity to learn marketable skills that would immediately serve them after graduation. Some students were assisted with job leads so they could work while attending high school as well. These programs were closed down in many districts due to... Lack of funding. We all decided to shift the cost of acquiring skills onto students and parents in the form of the glorified 4 year degree, which is often times void of any real skills. Aside from that,many of these honest vocations don't get the respect they deserve, even though they pay the bills. Young people don't really see value in the work, which is why there is a lack of interest.
We have become a very soft society, as well as a rather inefficient one at that. When people don't have the skills to meet the demands of the private sector, they will end up costing us in the way of taxpayer subsidies. Save a little now by closing these programs down... Spend a lot later. Nice strategy
So many here seem to want to end welfare and since we know it will never be allowed by the voters.....
What the voters want is totally meaningless and irrelevant.
When you run out of money, you run out of money and welfare will be ended whether the voters like it or not.
Same with Social Security and Medicare. When you run out of money -- and the day when you will is fast-approaching -- benefits will be cut whether voters like it or not.
At that time, I suspect many voters will be voting to end welfare in order to maintain Social Security and Medicare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas
1. Create a vocational education system ...
You already have one. In fact, you've had vocational education since at least the 1950s. You can have a million vocational education systems, but if the people in those vocations don't have the aptitude to perform those vocations.....then it matters not how much money you spend -- or don't spend.
You're going to throw away money training someone to be a MIG/TIG welder when they have zero aptitude? Why? So you can feel good? Well, just pretend you threw the money away and pretend someone who shouldn't be allowed near welding equipment is being trained to weld and you'll feel good.
Would you like an hint?
In Europe, vocational testing starts in the 6th Grade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas
2. A system where vouchers are made to help cover daycare costs for children until the person is placed in a working position.
Why?
I have a better idea that saves even more money. Single unwed mothers under the age of 28 aren't allowed to have HUD housing.
They can live with mummy and daddy, with mummy, with daddy, with other relatives, or they can shack up with some guy -- which would be a helluva lot better than the revolving door on the HUD tax-payer funded brothel they have now --- or if the tax-payers are going to foot the bill they can share an apartment with another single unwed mother under 28, and then they can baby-sit each other's children....
....for free....at no cost to the tax-payer.
I shared a 3-bedroom with 3 people -- so I wouldn't need Student Loans to attend university. They can share a room with another just like I did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas
3. Those that cannot work such as the elderly or disabled are placed on a system that helps ensure they get their basic needs met.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas
4. Free healthcare for those attending vocational and ends once they are back to work.
You already have that too --- it's called Medicaid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas
5. Ban for life anyone caught committing fraud or refusing to attend schooling or unwilling to accept work after graduation.
You can't even ban people now -- why should I believe they will be banned in the future?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas
6. Once everyone that is on the educational program, is put on another program or kicked off then end welfare as we know it.
That will never happen.
You don't have enough jobs for everyone and you never will -- not for a very, very long time and even then you still won't have enough jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper in Dallas
Yes I know that some of these programs will cost money, but the way I look at it it is investing money in America's future and in the future of Millions of Americans and we would all benefit.
We are already paying money and investing in America's incredibly bleak future....it's called the Public Education System.
You can't even graduate literate kids from your public education system now, so why should I believe you can run some kind of vocational training system that will actually teach people how to do something?
I got the perfect welfare program.........get out. As in here's your passport, now get the hell out. They can sit around and absolutely nothing all day in Somalia just as easily as they can here -- and it don't cost us nothing.
That the person is assisted to find a job in their new trade but must work in that profession for a minimum of two years or they have to pay the government back for the education they received..
Just one change. I'd make it 10 years, with 10% reduction per year in the percentage of full cost, including Healthcare or other aid like childcare while it school, to be paid back. So work 5 years-you owe 50%, work 3 years, 70%, etc.
Work 10 years-owe 0.
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