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Old 09-02-2012, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,740,494 times
Reputation: 9325

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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoisjongalt View Post
Paul Ryan is trying to have it both ways. He's touting his admiration for Objectivism to court the Ron Paul / Libertarian vote and at the same time he's disavowing basic elements of Rand's philosophy, namely atheism, to avoid offending evangelicals. Like Romney, he is trying to be all things to all people. Sorry, I don't buy it.

When did he say that?
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Old 09-02-2012, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,759,995 times
Reputation: 35920
How much are you guys going to overanalyze a piece of fiction?

Last edited by Ibginnie; 09-02-2012 at 08:59 AM.. Reason: Deleted deleted quote
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:01 AM
 
5,261 posts, read 4,156,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
How much are you guys going to overanalyze a piece of fiction?
Rand clearly stated numerous times that Atlas Shrugged was her definitive statement of her philosophical principles. This is one of the reasons it is nearly unreadable.
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,759,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cometclear View Post
Rand clearly stated numerous times that Atlas Shrugged was her definitive statement of her philosophical principles. This is one of the reasons it is nearly unreadable.
Having done a little writing myself, there are times when you have to work the story around just to have a story.
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:53 AM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,948,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper03 View Post
So which one is he a liar or a big fat hypocrite?
I don't think they are mutually exclusive.
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:27 AM
 
15,092 posts, read 8,634,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Of course she did because copyright law benefited her personally since she was a writer. Anyone else's rights are irrelevant to her.

I agree that there is a value in contracts and voluntary interaction, but.... she is simplistic in her view of these given human nature. The problem lies with voluntary interaction when it allows the strong (in particular corporations) to take advantage of the weak (workers or customers). Without some form of regulation, this is what you often get.
Actually not so. The error of simplicity resides in your lack of understanding Rand's philosophy regarding the role of a "rational" code of ethics governing interactions between parties, and the actual, proven flaws inherent of government regulation and how that can just as easily defeat free market enterprise as it might tend to promote it. And a careful analysis of our current state of affairs in this country today, fully vindicates Rand's position on that, in real live practical reality.

Leftists across the board cite the failures of our "Capitalist" system, pointing to the disproportionate wealth distribution that exists as it's prime evidence, with such alarming conditions that have resulted in the top 1% owning almost half of the nation's wealth. But what is totally ignored when assessing that reality is how government regulation that was theoretically supposed to prevent this result, actually facilitated it. The truth is, what has produced these undesirable results is not free market capitalism at all .. but "Crony Capitalism" which hides it's activities behind a facade of free market enterprise, with the rules and regulations applying only to you and I, but not "them". This keeps you in check, and maintains their oligarchical dominance over all markets. What ever success you might achieve within those controlled boundaries, is necessary for maintaining the illusion. Those regulations are therefore not walls of protection for you, but are indeed the walls that confine you.

Now there are still many .. perhaps even a majority that remain clueless to the reality of this, though more people are waking up than ever before. Nevertheless, for those who have yet to experience this epiphany, the FDA, for example, serves as the vanguard for stifling any challenge to the dominance and monopolies of large corporate food and drug producers, at the expense of free market enterprise, namely, the small family farmer and holistic natural healthcare practitioners, who actually produce much healthier food, and more effective health care, respectively. Monopolies, by definition, are the antithesis of free market capitalism, and the revolving door between these "regulatory agencies", the legislative branch, and the corporate entities to which this "oversight" is supposed to be applied, is well documented.

As another example, where was the Securities and Exchange Commission oversight, as Wall Street gangsters created this gigantic ponzi scheme that has resulted in leading the country to the edge of financial calamity where we currently stand? I'll tell you ... they were lavishing in their own avarice, which cost the gangsters paltry Millions in order to reap Billions in ill gotten gains. Their ownership of capital hill resulted in the Trillions of dollars handed over to the very entities that created the financial crisis to begin with, and now we stand witness to the ongoing rape and pillage of our country. These corporate banking entities pooled the necessary 500 Million or so required to purchase outright, the United States government, and that's a pretty sound investment when considering a 16 Trillion return.

Now I can understand your rejection of Rand's contentions if you ignore that reality, but having your head buried in the sand is not a strong position from which to argue. It just demonstrates ignorance.

The reality is, the establishment of these regulatory powers set the stage for, and created the mechanisms used to facilitate that which the regulatory powers were supposed to guard against. Now, those forces of law are what allows these corporate entities to use government to shut down and confiscate your family farm or dairy, as directed and owned by them, lock, stock and barrel. And no one escapes the tyranny, not even the simple Amish family who dares to produce raw milk. Want to collect rain water on your own property? Too bad, it's against regulations. Your small operation producing chickens? Well, for you, you must comply with the costly regulations that require you to tag each one of your animals with costly RFIDs, while the mega producer gets an exemption. Want to build a new barn on your farm, sorry, it's a designated wetland, and that is not permissible. Has Monsanto's poison GMO infected your organic crops? Guess what ... not only will you have no recourse for redress for that damage they caused you ... the courts have decided that Monsanto can sue you for patent infringement of their patented poison plants. And the list goes on, and on, and on .... endlessly.

Of course, none of this happens in the Utopian States of La La Land, so as long as you choose to reside there, no problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Aside from that Rand herself did not live up to her own standards. I was in college when she was holding court with many of my peers in the early 60s. It was a cult of personality with Rand at the top and Nathaniel Brandon as her mentee. When he broke with her, it caused a lot of problems among the Objectivists who were enthralled with Rand.
That's a pure mischaracterization of the situation. Brandon had an affair with Rand, and according to him, it was the realization on his part that he had confused love with admiration, and thus, ended the affair. She didn't take the news well, and that was the source of the rift, and not based on any philosophical separation, as you seem to be implying. The truth is, Brandon is still very much a proponent of Rand's philosophies, for which he fully embraces, while citing the very same evidence that I've touched upon here as vindication of her philosophies.
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:34 AM
 
15,092 posts, read 8,634,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cometclear View Post
Rand clearly stated numerous times that Atlas Shrugged was her definitive statement of her philosophical principles. This is one of the reasons it is nearly unreadable.
I don't have a problem reading it. What do you suppose you are doing wrong?
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Old 09-02-2012, 11:42 AM
 
1,512 posts, read 1,822,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
I don't have a problem reading it. What do you suppose you are doing wrong?
That's what I'm wondering. When I read it, I felt like I was understood for the first time in my life.
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