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Rand essentially plagiarized Adam Smith and exchanged his concept of "self-interest" for "selfishness." Most people interested in economics become interested in Ayn Rand at one point or another but grow out of Rand's objectivism because of its inherent limitations.
Exactly! -- but Rand had the guts to see through and expose the power-lust wrapped in a thin veneer of feigned altruism that characterizes the (pseudo-) Liberal ideology, not to mention the great butcher-states that almost destroyed constitutional pluralism in the Thirties and Forties. The central point of Rand's argument was that political and economic freedom are unitary and inseparable.
But the real world operates under a set of rules which are quite different than those postulated by Rand's entrepreneurial supermen. And most of us recognize that a philosophy that "the world begins and ends with me" loses its luster before our twentieth birthday. And that there is a link between the origins of the tested, pluralistic democracy and the changes in both Catholic and Protestant Christianity during the Sixteenth Century.
Rand was a vain, outspoken, argumentative person; she lived a stormy personal live and damaged herself via some of her own foibles. But she identified and elaborated upon the basic contradiction that lies at the heart of the process of statecraft. For that alone .... she ranks up there with Voltaire, Locke, and Burke.
It's down right scary that so many people like Paul Ryan believe in the philosophy of Ayn Rand. That's not the America I grew up in or want to live in. Ryan makes all his staff member read a copy of her book. But while Ryan worships her drumbeat of 'Selfishness is a Virtue' he seems to gloss over the fact that she didn't believe in God. That fact alone ought to put her whole philosophy at odds with Ryan's Catholic up bring. I don't see how he can claim to be such a good Christian and a disciple of Ayn Rand's at the same time.
You've fallen into the all too common trap of thinking that if someone admires a person that they agree with everything that person believes or says.
Using your logic, anyone who admires George Washington and Thomas Jefferson would also be an advocate of slavery. And anyone who admires John Kennedy would also be an advocate of adultery.
It's much more appropriate to admire parts of different people and philosophies rather than their entirety. So yes, one can admire Rand's economics and still be a devout Catholic. One can admire Washington's leadership and still oppose slavery. One can admire Kennedy's resolve and still oppose adultery.
Actually, you couldn't have it any more backwards ... really ... right as rain you are not, even though you are absolutely convinced that you are. And I'm not just picking on you here, as you seem to represent the consensus opinion .... I just chose to respond to this particular post to address the points.
It's clear that you have either not read Rand's material, or the material is beyond your grasp, intellectually, because she herself addresses your particular confusion, specifically. So I'll try to condense it, and demonstrate your error in understanding in different language.
To start with ... Rand's complementary philosophies of "objectivism" and "virtues of selfishness" are in fact the very essence of the values of our country, as envisioned by the founders and defined in the US Constitution. Perfectly compatible. Your confusion here is understandable because so many haven't a clue about what those values really are ... hence the crap hole of degradation and lack of morality and ethics that we have now, that was once a great nation of integrity. Take a poll, and you will find that the majority of the deluded, uneducated public believe that they actually live in a democracy, if you care to challenge my contentions? Yet in spite of popular opinion, we are not a democracy, but are a Constitutional Republic. And this is where the rubber meets the road.
Our constitution strenuously emphasizes "individual rights and liberty". In fact, one could safely say that it is preoccupied with it. It focuses on limiting the powers of government (government being a collective of the people), while protecting the individual from that "collective" trampling his individual rights, which are held sacred. Even our Declaration of Independence opens early with the concept that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Correct? Are you with me so far?
.............
Wonderful post. Thanks for taking the time to put this one together.
Exactly! -- but Rand had the guts to see through and expose the power-lust wrapped in a thin veneer of feigned altruism that characterizes the (pseudo-) Liberal ideology, not to mention the great butcher-states that almost destroyed constitutional pluralism in the Thirties and Forties. The central point of Rand's argument was that political and economic freedom are unitary and inseparable.
But the real world operates under a set of rules which are quite different than those postulated by Rand's entrepreneurial supermen. And most of us recognize that a philosophy that "the world begins and ends with me" loses its luster before our twentieth birthday. And that there is a link between the origins of the tested, pluralistic democracy and the changes in both Catholic and Protestant Christianity during the Sixteenth Century.
Rand was a vain, outspoken, argumentative person; she lived a stormy personal live and damaged herself via some of her own foibles. But she identified and elaborated upon the basic contradiction that lies at the heart of the process of statecraft. For that alone .... she ranks up there with Voltaire, Locke, and Burke.
She Ranks up there with Bernie Madeoff. Fortunately, Bernie can be punished for his greed and selfishness because we have regulations.
Paul Ryan's mentor Ayn Rand believed Selfishness was a virtue. I don't believe she had any children, but I wonder what she would have told her children in elementary school about sharing.
Quote:
No man is allowed to be a judge in his own cause, because his interest would certainly bias his judgment, and, not improbably, corrupt his integrity. With equal, nay with greater reason, a body of men are unfit to be both judges and parties at the same time; yet what are many of the most important acts of legislation, but so many judicial determinations, not indeed concerning the rights of single persons, but concerning the rights of large bodies of citizens? And what are the different classes of legislators but advocates and parties to the causes which they determine? Is a law proposed concerning private debts? It is a question to which the creditors are parties on one side and the debtors on the other. Justice ought to hold the balance between them. Yet the parties are, and must be, themselves the judges; and the most numerous party, or, in other words, the most powerful faction must be expected to prevail. Shall domestic manufactures be encouraged, and in what degree, by restrictions on foreign manufactures? are questions which would be differently decided by the landed and the manufacturing classes, and probably by neither with a sole regard to justice and the public good. The apportionment of taxes on the various descriptions of property is an act which seems to require the most exact impartiality; yet there is, perhaps, no legislative act in which greater opportunity and temptation are given to a predominant party to trample on the rules of justice. Every shilling with which they overburden the inferior number, is a shilling saved to their own pockets.
It is in vain to say that enlightened statesmen will be able to adjust these clashing interests, and render them all subservient to the public good. Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm. Nor, in many cases, can such an adjustment be made at all without taking into view indirect and remote considerations, which will rarely prevail over the immediate interest which one party may find in disregarding the rights of another or the good of the whole.
Good luck with all that man-is-inherently-good thinking. If it weren't for being interested in one's self you and I would more than likely not be here and would be just a knot on the evolutionary tree for some other species to ponder over.
You've fallen into the all too common trap of thinking that if someone admires a person that they agree with everything that person believes or says.
Using your logic, anyone who admires George Washington and Thomas Jefferson would also be an advocate of slavery. And anyone who admires John Kennedy would also be an advocate of adultery.
It's much more appropriate to admire parts of different people and philosophies rather than their entirety. So yes, one can admire Rand's economics and still be a devout Catholic. One can admire Washington's leadership and still oppose slavery. One can admire Kennedy's resolve and still oppose adultery.
I see your point, but I disagree with the conclusion. Rand's ideas have their greatest consequence in the area of economics. I really don't see how anyone can claim to follow and love the man who said "whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant" and who sacrificed his own life, and faced God's wrath for the sins of the world. Jesus was the Anti-Rand.
Contrast that with Rand, who, as an earlier poster said so well, that "the world begins and ends with me", and that selfishness is a positive character trait. The Christian who claims to support Rand's economic ideas either misunderstands her or has no understanding of the gospel. But the two cannot be reconciled...much like Christianity cannot be reconciled with Karl Marx.
Honestly, if more of these so-called "Christian" politicians (both Ds and Rs) followed the philosophy of Jesus instead of Ayn Rand, this country would be in a much better place.
Corruption, greed, and selfishness have destroyed many great empires and it will destroy the US too.
Honestly, if more of these so-called "Christian" politicians (both Ds and Rs) followed the philosophy of Jesus instead of Ayn Rand, this country would be in a much better place.
Corruption, greed, and selfishness have destroyed many great empires and it will destroy the US too.
Honestly, if more of these so-called "Christian" politicians (both Ds and Rs) followed the philosophy of Jesus instead of Ayn Rand, this country would be in a much better place.
Corruption, greed, and selfishness have destroyed many great empires and it will destroy the US too.
uhm
selfishness means you have to help yourself first before you can help others
ever heard of: " charity begins at home"
"God helps those who help themselves"....The quote was actually created by Ben Franklin and it appeared in Poor Richard's Almanac in 1757.
"Try first thyself, and after call in God; For to the worker God himself lends aid."
"But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."
Last edited by workingclasshero; 08-31-2012 at 09:20 AM..
selfishness means you have to help yourself first before you can help others
Sorry, no that is wrong. This is the definition of selfishness and it is consistant with Ayn Rand's beliefs.
devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
2. characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives
I don't believe you understand Ayn Rand.
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