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Claiming that the debt can never be paid is silly, considering that world war two debt was bigger considering the size of the economy, and we dealt with that debt.
Most people back then worked for a living. Today's cradle-to-grave welfare programs and more children being born into welfare programs every year make that too unlikely, in many regions of the country, the children born to welfare handouts now outnumber children born to families that can support them.
Back then we had manufacturing jobs, today we don't and there was and is nothing to replace manufacturing for wealth creation.
Actually no we didnt.. We've NEVER dealt with any debt, we simply roll it over into new debt.
Since 1933, we've all lived under a STATE OF EMERGENCY.
No one has used lawful money to PAY DEBT.
Everyone is presumed to be a bankrupted serf (Human Resource), and pledged as collateral on the public debt.
Senate Report 93-549
War and Emergency Powers Acts
"A majority of the people of the United States have lived all of their lives under emergency rule. For 40 years (as of the report 1933-1973), freedoms and governmental procedures guaranteed by the Constitution have, in varying degrees, been abridged by laws brought into force by states of national emergency."
" Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."
Federal Reserve notes (worthless IOUs) are "backed" by YOUR LABOR and YOUR PROPERTY, thanks to your consent.
Welcome to the People's Socialist Democratic Republic of America, sans that pesky charter of negative liberties... since 1933.
In one way you are correct. While some was repaid, economic growth, which I am advocating as more important than the level of debt, made the World War II debt irrelevant. In other words, GDP is the denominator in debt:GDP. With economic growth, the denominator rises making the debt:GDP ratio asymptotically approach zero.
Debt reduces growth in the GDP because tax revenues need to be raised to pay the interest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech
As for Food Stamps being Keynesian, the concept of programs for the poor are not economics but moral. Increasing Food Stamps might be conforming to Keynes, if that was considered part of economic stimulus during a liquidity trap. But Food Stamps is a program that is used even when there is full employment, and therefore, has nothing to do with Keynes in that context.
See this is where we differ, I dont think its moral to create programs that perpetuate poverty..
And the problem with thinking each citizen only owes $51,000 is that a good portion of the citizens will never pay one cent of what they owe. That means many owe $0 and a few owe far more than $51,000 -- but not only that -- the debt is growing as we speak, it's not going to be $16 trillion for long. It's rising fast.
Since 1933, we've all lived under a STATE OF EMERGENCY.
No one has used lawful money to PAY DEBT.
Everyone is presumed to be a bankrupted serf (Human Resource), and pledged as collateral on the public debt.
Senate Report 93-549
War and Emergency Powers Acts
"A majority of the people of the United States have lived all of their lives under emergency rule. For 40 years (as of the report 1933-1973), freedoms and governmental procedures guaranteed by the Constitution have, in varying degrees, been abridged by laws brought into force by states of national emergency."
" Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."
Federal Reserve notes (worthless IOUs) are "backed" by YOUR LABOR and YOUR PROPERTY, thanks to your consent.
Welcome to the People's Socialist Democratic Republic of America, sans that pesky charter of negative liberties... since 1933.
And don't forget everything bought with the Federal Reserve note automatically has a lien attached to it, meaning it can be siezed at any time at the discretion of the creditor.
And the problem with thinking each citizen only owes $51,000 is that a good portion of the citizens will never pay one cent of what they owe. That means many owe $0 and a few owe far more than $51,000 -- but not only that -- the debt is growing as we speak, it's not going to be $16 trillion for long. It's rising fast.
That's because every piece of money that comes into existence/circulation has interest attached to it, down to the last dollar bill. That's what I'm trying to say when I said that debt can not pay back debt. IT IS AN IMPOSSIBILITY!!!!
Clinton = controlled spending, biggest surplus in US history
W = insane spending, insane debt
Why in the world would you want to go back to right wing fiscal policies that have never worked?
Look you can spend this nine ways from sunday but there is no way you can spin the fact that Obama outspent everyone you listed and then some.
There is no comparison. Barak Obama, in less than 4 years has grown the debt by more than FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS. That is fully one third of the total national debt that has accrued over 230 years!
Second wave? Are you trying to compare 2013 to 2007 - 2011?
What you don't see is the amount of homes waiting to go into foreclosure.. I have @5 neighbors in Florida waiting for the banks to move.. they have been waiting for 4 years or more .. the banks are hoping to get the prices up a bit more because they are taking a beating. It is not over yet by a long shot. They are dribbling out on the market because they still have some of the dogs , homes no one wants, that are still on the books.. Laws in place that requires banks to have cash on the books 5 times the worth of each home, this legislation was put in place by the feds.
I see the neighborhoods in florida with homes empty too , people who left thinking the banks would move sooner.
Check Trulia and see the homes in Ft Myers, Orlando, Miami, Cape Coral and Tampa that are REO's. Bank owned properties. Just looked at Ft Myers.. they have 237 pages of foreclosures on their site.
Since 1933, we've all lived under a STATE OF EMERGENCY.
No one has used lawful money to PAY DEBT.
Everyone is presumed to be a bankrupted serf (Human Resource), and pledged as collateral on the public debt.
Senate Report 93-549
War and Emergency Powers Acts
"A majority of the people of the United States have lived all of their lives under emergency rule. For 40 years (as of the report 1933-1973), freedoms and governmental procedures guaranteed by the Constitution have, in varying degrees, been abridged by laws brought into force by states of national emergency."
" Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything. This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy."
Federal Reserve notes (worthless IOUs) are "backed" by YOUR LABOR and YOUR PROPERTY, thanks to your consent.
Welcome to the People's Socialist Democratic Republic of America, sans that pesky charter of negative liberties... since 1933.
Debt reduces growth in the GDP because tax revenues need to be raised to pay the interest.
Depends on who holds the debt, paint baller.
Last edited by gwynedd1; 09-06-2012 at 08:56 AM..
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