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I have met a lot of homeless people. Very few are homeless because of this economy. They are homeless due to poor choices.
1. Single Dad, homeless, living in shelter with two kids. He blew his paycheck gambling. Got kicked out of apt. He had no money saved to live any place. He was a truck driver, lost his job for being late.
2. Veteran, got out of service with no skills. Never took any classes while in service, no college at all. Never saved money. Turned down several jobs that did not pay enough.
3. Woman, got cancer, lost her job. Now, this woman I felt bad for...she did not get UI. she was applying for SSDI...and that takes time.
So, one out of three...the other two..no pity party.
Yes and what a lot of people naively do not realize, many of the homeless get disability checks. They often use the addresses of the shelters they sometimes stay in.
Poverty in the USA is not for any lack of government spending, the government is throwing more money at poverty than ever before. More children on food stamps, more babies being born to welfare mothers than ever before. The government is certainly not the answer, it's just making everything worse.
And there are more people than ever on mental illness drugs. And the government is paying for a huge portion of those drugs. More children than ever on drugs than ever before.
The face of the homeless hasn't changed...its just more frequent and the media loves to run stories on it.
I know. It seems I every time I turn on the TV there's some story on the poor. When are we going to get some shows on the rich and famous? I have a theory that if we had more shows about the rich and famous, most of us would work harder. What do you think? If we keep fixating on these poor people, what motivation will we have to stop being so lazy and earning little money?
My, how compassionate of you. Again we have the distinction between the "deserving poor" and the "undeserving poor." You know, the same delineation Jesus drew for all of you Christians. A pity that not all of us are as skilled at separating the deserving from the undeserving.
Out of curiosity, would you offer any help to the two kids or is that again their fault for picking the wrong parents?
There should be a distinction made between deserving poor and undeserving poor.
If you hand one poor guy $1000, he would find his wife and kids a place to live and buy food for them. You hand another poor guy $1000 and he's going to run right over to his favorite drug dealer and load up on his favorite drugs.
It matters a lot why someone is poor if you want to try and really help that person. Is he poor because all his life he worked a job and the factory just closed and he's over 50 with a bad back and cannot find work no matter how hard he's tried, or is he poor because all his life he gambled, drunk, used every kind of drug he could find?
Is a woman poor because she's 62 years old and out of work but always worked her whole life until she got cancer a year ago or is she poor because she decides to let any guy that looks at her impregnate her so she can live off welfare handouts and doesn't think she should ever have to work for a living?
See -- it makes a big difference. Some people really could use some help, others will just take advantage and really just need a good hard kick in the seat of their pants to get them moving.
There should be a distinction made between deserving poor and undeserving poor.
If you hand one poor guy $1000, he would find his wife and kids a place to live and buy food for them. You hand another poor guy $1000 and he's going to run right over to his favorite drug dealer and load up on his favorite drugs.
It matters a lot why someone is poor if you want to try and really help that person. Is he poor because all his life he worked a job and the factory just closed and he's over 50 with a bad back and cannot find work no matter how hard he's tried, or is he poor because all his life he gambled, drunk, used every kind of drug he could find?
Is a woman poor because she's 62 years old and out of work but always worked her whole life until she got cancer a year ago or is she poor because she decides to let any guy that looks at her impregnate her so she can live off welfare handouts and doesn't think she should ever have to work for a living?
See -- it makes a big difference. Some people really could use some help, others will just take advantage and really just need a good hard kick in the seat of their pants to get them moving.
I don't know why cometclear would disagree with that. Looks like common sense to me.
What bothers me is the idea, espoused mostly by godless Randian knuckleheads, that a person who is homeless by his own fault (in whole or in part), or whose homelessness is perpetuated by bad habits and/or addictions, should not be helped in any way. Undoubtedly some of them really can't or won't be helped. It's enough that we don't let them starve. But others can be helped, and it's best for everyone - for the homeless, for those who give, and for society - if such people are helped.
Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 09-02-2012 at 04:49 PM..
I beg to differ. Your categorization simply treats homeless as people with no place to live and even reason for homelessness touch upon side of the story. What is lack of affordable housing? Do you mean subsidized?
From my experience the main reason for long term homelessness are mental illness, substance abuse and then unemployment. Its hard to employ people who are disturbed or drunk.
Withouth acknowledging that all efforts will fail.
There has to be a program aimed for these with mental problems, these with substance abuse and then with homeless due to economical downturn.
Any other approach is simplistic and bound to fail. We had homeless even when the economy was booming and unemployment was law: the reasons for homelessness are not only economical as you presented.
Differ all you want, but you are not differing with me, as it is not my categorization....I agree that there are many homeless because of substance abuse, but I don't think it is the majority, and mental illness is not their fault...It is not a simple problem as those that are mentally ill often deny it and go off their meds...... How do you separate the ones who are legitimately homeless from the ones that are unemployable or just homeless by choice and working the system?
There are few legitimate reasons to be homeless in my city if one is fit and not a substance abuser, as jobs are plentiful, and minimum wage is fairly high...What we have here is the mildest climate in Canada, so many come from other parts of Canada to avoid the harsh winters....We also have quite a few street kids who have left their families because they don't want to follow the rules, or have been booted out....I personally think that it is a problem that will never be solved entirely.
In many big cities one just can't cut it on a min wage job.
And there's not widespread mass transit where they can live in cheaper areas outside of big cities.
I don't know why cometclear would disagree with that. Looks like common sense to me.
What bothers me is the idea, espoused mostly by godless Randian knuckleheads, that a person who is homeless by his own fault (in whole or in part), or whose homelessness is perpetuated by bad habits and/or addictions, should not be helped in any way. Undoubtedly some of them really can't or won't be helped. It's enough that we don't let them starve. But others can be helped, and it's best for everyone - for the homeless, for those who give, and for society - if such people are helped.
Yes -- I agree with having shelters that provide food even to those who want to make no attempt to quit drugs or alcohol, and a place to come and stay when the weather is terrible.
If the shelter employees are made up of mostly former homeless, they can pretty much tell who can use which kind of help. They know who may be reachable, who is hopeless and so should just be given a meal and maybe a cup of coffee but don't even expect they'll dry up and clean up and want to work hard.
Rescue missions should view people as more than physical bodies but also as souls that may need help. Some may be in despair or may be trapped by addictions but could be reached. Man does not live by bread alone -- the hopeless need more than just food.
I don't think it really costs much to provide meals of donated food that the shelter residents themselves prepare. To me that's really the best approach and can be part of their own rehab. Those closer to the ones in need -- because living on the streets yourself makes you closer to the others, are in the better position to provide real help.
I think church people are usually best as intermediaries -- they can get some of the donations needed. They can help with prayer groups. They can reach out in both directions - sometimes just a small gift at Christmas like a new pair of gloves or a warm hat and scarf can lift someone's spirits a little. And of course a special holiday meal -- no reason not to help provide that even to the worst addicted. I don't know about donating a few bottles of wine -- but for some, that would be what would really brighten their holiday.
Okay. I have worked in shelters...and found a lot of major entitlement there. Not poor folks wanting whatever help...we were passing out food, and one guy wants a vegetarian meal. Sorry, you ain't buying it...you get what you get. Nothing special. You get what everyone else is getting.
As for Christmas gifts...that is a major sore spot for me. I was working two jobs one year...to get my kids Christmas. The kids at the treatment center were getting X -Boxes! I could not afford that for my own kids.
There should be a distinction made between deserving poor and undeserving poor.
If you hand one poor guy $1000, he would find his wife and kids a place to live and buy food for them. You hand another poor guy $1000 and he's going to run right over to his favorite drug dealer and load up on his favorite drugs.
It matters a lot why someone is poor if you want to try and really help that person. Is he poor because all his life he worked a job and the factory just closed and he's over 50 with a bad back and cannot find work no matter how hard he's tried, or is he poor because all his life he gambled, drunk, used every kind of drug he could find?
Is a woman poor because she's 62 years old and out of work but always worked her whole life until she got cancer a year ago or is she poor because she decides to let any guy that looks at her impregnate her so she can live off welfare handouts and doesn't think she should ever have to work for a living?
See -- it makes a big difference. Some people really could use some help, others will just take advantage and really just need a good hard kick in the seat of their pants to get them moving.
I have handed money over to such a person before. I'm relatively certain he intended to spend it on booze. Maybe it was a drink that got him through one more night. I wasn't in a position to get the man into treatment, which would be ideal. On the other hand, maybe he needed it for rent. I'm not ashamed either way.
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