U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 09-01-2012, 02:46 PM
 
Location: The middle of nowhere Arkansas
3,325 posts, read 3,009,948 times
Reputation: 1012

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
Slavery or not I think you may find that horses, mules and white immigrants built that canal and the railroads of the period. Speaking of that building have you ever seen that picture from the 1930s where they men were eating lunch on a girder at about floor 60 of the Empire State building. There was not a black man in the group of about 15. That picture hangs in the rest room of a food store I go to now and then and I never miss looking at it and wondering how people can work that high up.
According to my source the irish had a lot to do with it. Naturally, they were paid poorly.
Rate this post positively

 
Old 09-01-2012, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 19,964,715 times
Reputation: 16910
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy View Post
I wonder if those Central Pacific workers of Chinese origin were "buried" by some of the Irish from the Union Pacific. I guess if you have those pictures you do know that very often cliffs were blown away by people from the UP side to slow the Chinese down.

Also, I guess you know about the day that that group of Irish immigrants, eight of them in all, laid that over 10 miles of track. That day's work is still a world record and the machines of today will never beat what those men did that day.
Death while blasting was common when the railroads were being laid. It was also very inconsequential. Whoever was handy dug a hole the they bodies were thrown in. Under tracks not yet laid was often easiest. The priority of the railroad bosses was simple, speed... Disposing of bodies was done as quickly and economically as possible. Time and the number of miles of track laid was everything.

There is a project using ground radar to locate mass graves to dig up and formally bury those who died while buidling the connectors of America. They don't care what they were, just give them a respectful burial.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 09-01-2012, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,877 posts, read 31,507,603 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Yeah right.





Yes, slaves were so valued as property that in the wake of the Nat Turner rebellion 200 slaves were murdered in retaliation a number which didn't include the 55 executed for actually taking part in it.
Here is another one talking about the stupidity of owners mistreating their valuable property. I'll bet that man wasn't a prized field hand of the 19th century and the woman wasn't one the owner planned to impregnate very soon. Some people rule with that kind of force and make examples of their slaves so the others can be kept in line. I am pretty sure that those freedmen of the post Civil War era that stayed with their owners both respected and loved their owners and I doubt very seriously if any of them had been treated like those people.

Examples had to be made for the Nat Turner rebellion since slaves outnumbered the whites by a bunch. No, I don't think like that but I am not one of the whites in that area either.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 09-01-2012, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,877 posts, read 31,507,603 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
That's fine. The point remains, besides the utterly ridiculous assertion that slaves were too valuable to be used for "dangerous work" the fact is that slavery was on the wane well before construction began on the canal. And by the way, as you pointed out, children did work in that era.
CAn you find me some really good numbers of how prime field hands were beaten and killed in the south. I say that because slaves in the north were considered property but not mistreated as much as in the south. However, I don't think many farmers beat their prize bulls with clubs today and that would be about like mistreating prime field hands who were valued up to $1500 just before the Civil War. That crap from Harriet Beecher Stowe may have been true on some farms of the period but not so many at that.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 09-01-2012, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,877 posts, read 31,507,603 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty011 View Post
Republicans built America? Nonsense! -- It was built by the blacks!




Definitely not so. This country was built by the sweat of many different people of many nationalities. To say the blacks built America is a farce to say the least.
Get ready to hear about mostly slaves building the capital building in DC for saying what you said. Some people consider the capital to be the country.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 09-01-2012, 02:59 PM
 
4,709 posts, read 11,949,293 times
Reputation: 3802
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Another case of making it up as we go...

Slavery was abolished in New York in 1799. Construction on the canal began in 1817.


If I'm "making it up", I have lots of company.

Google: slaves too valuable for some jobs. You'll find thousands of articles on the subject. Forget the Erie Canal if you want....there are many other examples you can read about.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 09-01-2012, 03:01 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,661 posts, read 38,022,116 times
Reputation: 17599
Without black slaves, America as we know it would have happened, just developing slower.

But had it been a situation of the same number of blacks arriving in America (let's say by way of many shipwrecks) and without the white man's knowledge and direction, the US as we know it wouldn't have happened. In fact, the US would be uncivilized and just as messed up as the African continent is now where there is no influence of the European colonists. The blacks that were brought over as slaves were still living Stone Age style without written language or science.

And I feel very strongly that in the long run, American blacks today were very lucky to have their ancestors brought over as slaves, otherwise they would be living in Africa instead in tribes and warring with other tribes, and still without written languages or science.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 09-01-2012, 03:03 PM
 
1,389 posts, read 1,248,668 times
Reputation: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Yeah right.





Yes, slaves were so valued as property that in the wake of the Nat Turner rebellion 200 slaves were murdered in retaliation a number which didn't include the 55 executed for actually taking part in it.
I doubt masters killed their own slaves.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 09-01-2012, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 19,964,715 times
Reputation: 16910
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Why are you guys always trying to turn everything into an us vs. them thing.....always talking about who was treated the worse.

White immigrants didn't have to come here, and moreover, could've simply went back home if the treatment was so inhumane. Slaves couldn't even leave their plantations without papers.

Don't be stupid.

Bottom line, EVERYONE had a hand in building the country. Why not just leave it at that?

Damn...some people, i swear.
In the first two centuries at least half, maybe 3/4 of european 'immigrants' came under owndership. Some like the poor 'pressed' into ships (especially children who were indebted to work until adulthood if the survived), or like the Irish outright kidnapped as normal procedure. Poor displaced farmers who ended up in the cities as beggers often picked it as the least bad option, but between 1600 and independence, half of indentured slaves (as commonly they were refered to) died before it was done. The rest had to earn enought to pay for a passage home. Very very few tried. Mostly they were left to leave or keep out of the way. They certainly didn't 'choose' to come, and even if they could, what was there to go home to?

Those indentured were dressed and housed by their owners as property too, and without permission and papers couldn't leave the property either. Frequently the time added was considerable as it was added for even the smallest infraction so the investment would be around much longer.

Later immigrants fled to survive. The second half of the emptying of Ireland was the potato famine and if one survived the journey, (the ships were not called coffin ships for nothing) arrived with nothing. It is absolutely no accident that northern industry was gearing up at the same time masses of immigrants who would work for enough to feed themselves arrived. If slavery hadn't been ended, it would have become something like the industrial version, where only those able were the concern and if they grew ill or pregnant or were hurt or too young or old, were of no concern at all. Immigrants were paid a pittance in conditions as dangerous and bad. They had no reason to 'go home'. Nor could they afford it.

Considering that a great many of the indentured were initially kidnapped (especially Irish and children) or convicts who stole something to eat and there was no illusion of choice, and the cost of home was impossible, your statement is false. Most immigrants early OR late were the poor and dispossed and they came because there wasn't any reason left to stay, not necessarily because they wanted to leave home.

I agree that everyone had a hand in. If one wants to be more precise, it was the poor and dispossessed who built all the great achievement since they were either cheap or involuntary. The source of the bodies changed over time is the only difference.

It's intersting that there is a theory that as the vast majority of those around in 1776 had come or family had come under an indenture as 'unfree' as the common term used was, the call for rebellion and freedom from opression was so powerful because a great many had either personally or through family known the lack of it.
Rate this post positively
 
Old 09-01-2012, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,877 posts, read 31,507,603 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Grass Fever View Post
Wow, what a statement of contempt!
I see a lot more truth in that statement than you manage to even think about.
Rate this post positively
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top