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Old 09-07-2012, 08:38 AM
 
20,718 posts, read 19,363,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
You adjust your sales tax so it meets your revenue goal and one thing I most certainly want to see is it listed on the invoice. This shouldn't be a new tax but a replacement tax and you eliminate this tax for business because as the consumer this only gets passed onto you anyway. These taxes are then fully exposed to the consumer instead of hidden in the price of the product, if they are paying $200 for a TV now and the cost of that TV is going to be $120 plus $80 tax you're going to open a lot of eyes to how much they are really paying in tax. .
All taxes are not passed on to the consumer. Its a myth.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,221,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
All taxes are not passed on to the consumer. Its a myth.
all cost increases are passed on to the consumer and that is not a myth.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:46 AM
 
20,718 posts, read 19,363,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
all cost increases are passed on to the consumer and that is not a myth.
Then why do such preeminent economists like Ricardo and JS Mill say you are wrong? I posted a very thorough explanation earlier in this thread. The consumer price is set by the zero rent producer. Any tax on "rents" cannot be passed on to the consumer.Its a compete myth that all taxes show up in consumer prices. VAT taxes and income taxes do.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:47 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Firstly you've made the assumption there is an "obviously there are some logistics or organizational issues" which I've shown to be false. Secondly I don;t know what you're disagreeing with because I haven't suggested that most business are seasonal.




There is nothing easy about hiring staff especially if they are temporary. In my business for example you could easily destroy a $70K truck, cause untold damage to the customers property and kill yourself and other people all within a split second. Truck experience is the easy part. By the time I might consider letting them go on their own the busy season is long over. On top of that they needed a CDL which cost $$$ to hire and that's besides the fact most with a CDL aren't interested in temporary work. Again you're going to hear similar experiences from many business owners.






ROFL.... perhaps you might want to consider understanding the business that my family has been in for four generations before trying to give me advice on it, OK? This is a bulk business with specialized trucks. Pickups? BAHAHAHA,




Again, what is the percentage of small businesses using such expensive and potentially deadly tools? Yours is a very blue-collar business, but that is not the rule anymore.
And since you say it has been your family business for generations, don't you have other family members whom you can trust and teach how to use those machines?
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:55 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Then why do such preeminent economists like Ricardo and JS Mill say you are wrong?
When my fuel bill goes up my rates go up, when my phone bill goes up my rates go up, when my <insert anything here> bill goes up my rates go up. Why would you think this pattern is going to change when my taxes go up? As I said previously the tax bill is listed right below the phone bill, all of those costs are folded into and help determine what I charge for my services. I don't look at what the fuel, phone and taxes are costing me to determine what I'm going to charge...... I look at the bottom line.
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Old 09-07-2012, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,869 posts, read 26,508,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Actually it doesn't, but we are heading in that direction.
True, the rest is borrowed, taking money from future generations. But still, it will come from the private sector. GOvernment does not create wealth.
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,869 posts, read 26,508,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
You adjust your sales tax so it meets your revenue goal and one thing I most certainly want to see is it listed on the invoice. This shouldn't be a new tax but a replacement tax and you eliminate this tax for business because as the consumer this only gets passed onto you anyway. These taxes are then fully exposed to the consumer instead of hidden in the price of the product, if they are paying $200 for a TV now and the cost of that TV is going to be $120 plus $80 tax you're going to open a lot of eyes to how much they are really paying in tax. .
I wholeheartedly agree, and that is why I support the Fair Tax (national sales tax), and only as a replacement to other forms of revenue collection. With the VAT and nearly every other form of taxation, the "real costs" of taxes are accumulated throughout production and hidden in the product cost. The consumer has no way of knowing what these cost him.

With the FAIR TAX, the bill is put on the final product, and the consumer sees exactly how much the services he receives from the government cost him. It's an eye opener when people realize that the federal goverment cost them well over 20% of every dollar they make. When he sees what government services cost...he may well decide he can live with less service if it allows him to keep more of what he has earned. Which is of course the real reason liberals are so terrified of it.
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:04 AM
 
5,064 posts, read 5,728,879 times
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Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Well, I am not a capitalist, money was never an incentive or source of motivation for me. I give my best when I like doing what I do, when I do something meaningful, etc.
So, say I make a good product that a lot of people like and demand and thus I earn a lot. I would expand and hire anyway, regardless whether I paid 30 or 50% in taxes. As long as can lead a decent middle-class life, who cares about the excess money?!
That's easy to say when you have never run a business. Expanding takes time, more employees take time. I'm not willing to invest more time for no reward. And my husband and I aren't driven by money. We have a nice house, but overall, we give away a good portion of what we have.
We like success, but if I'm choosing between spending my time making more money for the government or spending time with my children, I will always pick my children. We do a cost benefit analysis on pretty much everything involving our time, including household repairs, errands, etc.

But here's the bigger factor- when we work less, it doesn't just affect us, it affects all the businesses that support us. We advertise less, so that hurts the local media. If we order $10,000 less per month in products, then that company has less to pay their employees. And less boxes get shipped to us through UPS. Less sales tax goes back to our county & state. And less income tax goes to the federal government. It hurts everyone up and down the line.
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:07 AM
 
20,718 posts, read 19,363,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
True, the rest is borrowed, taking money from future generations. But still, it will come from the private sector. GOvernment does not create wealth.
No you still don't get it. Also da guberment does create wealth otherwise robber bands will loot the country. Its another myth. Let me tell you how our stupid country works with profit accounting methods.


Repair a bridge on the public account = repair expense.
Empty hospital bed = loss

Don't repair bridge = saving
Full hospital bed = health care profit.


Let me also tell you where the wealth is:



See all that land that rises in value from other people's labor and capital?

Do you think this person created wealth?


World's richest woman lauds $2-a-day wages - Bottom Line


should she be richer than this guy ever was?




Do fat slobs create wealth or does a guy like Tesla who created capital instead of collecting rent?
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,869 posts, read 26,508,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brentwoodgirl View Post
That's easy to say when you have never run a business. Expanding takes time, more employees take time. I'm not willing to invest more time for no reward. And my husband and I aren't driven by money. We have a nice house, but overall, we give away a good portion of what we have.
We like success, but if I'm choosing between spending my time making more money for the government or spending time with my children, I will always pick my children. We do a cost benefit analysis on pretty much everything involving our time, including household repairs, errands, etc.

But here's the bigger factor- when we work less, it doesn't just affect us, it affects all the businesses that support us. We advertise less, so that hurts the local media. If we order $10,000 less per month in products, then that company has less to pay their employees. And less boxes get shipped to us through UPS. Less sales tax goes back to our county & state. And less income tax goes to the federal government. It hurts everyone up and down the line.
You're missing the whole premise of liberalism. If you are smart, hard working and successful....you are obligated to work harder and produce more because of all those employees you can therefore keep working and other businesses you can support, not to gain something for yourself. All of those people are dependant on you and have a "right" to your energies, efforts and success. The only one that doesn't...is you. Spending time with your children when you could be working for the goverment...you evil person, you're "going Galt" on society.

eta [\sarcasm]
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