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Old 09-16-2012, 12:54 PM
 
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The last few days I stumbled over the two plus four agreement that Germany signed in 1990.

Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I found Germany can only have maximum armed forces of 375000 and is not allowed to have nukes.

It seems like Germany is not really an sovereign nation. I mean Germany is arguably one of the most peaceful countries in this world. Why is France and Great Britain allowed to have nukes but not Germany?
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
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Germany has decided for itself that it does not want nukes. There are literally dozens of countries which have the technical ability to build nukes but which have decided it is not worth their effort or that it is not in their interests to do so.
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,805,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsjustmeagain View Post
The last few days I stumbled over the two plus four agreement that Germany signed in 1990.

Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I found Germany can only have maximum armed forces of 375000 and is not allowed to have nukes.

It seems like Germany is not really an sovereign nation. I mean Germany is arguably one of the most peaceful countries in this world. Why is France and Great Britain allowed to have nukes but not Germany?
Germany lost in WWII.
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Germany lost in WWII.
So?
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:08 PM
 
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Germany can just withdraw from the treaty if they decide to. Doesn't look like there is any punitive consequences for them doing so. Like most treaties in effect.

This is a common myth about treaties. That they are binding on a country forever, or that if they withdraw from a treaty, they can be punished.
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Think4Yourself View Post
Germany has decided for itself that it does not want nukes. There are literally dozens of countries which have the technical ability to build nukes but which have decided it is not worth their effort or that it is not in their interests to do so.
It hasn't. It is forbidden for Germany to have nukes.
Big difference.
Germans even never got to vote for their constitution.
Seems like Germany is not really an sovereign nation.
Very sad.
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by padcrasher View Post
Germany can just withdraw from the treaty if they decide to. Doesn't look like there is any punitive consequences for them doing so. Like most treaties in effect.

This is a common myth about treaties. That they are binding on a country forever, or that if they withdraw from a treaty, they can be punished.
I don't think they can withdraw. Why make such a treaty in the first place anyway?
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by itsjustmeagain View Post
It hasn't. It is forbidden for Germany to have nukes.
Big difference.
Germans even never got to vote for their constitution.
Seems like Germany is not really an sovereign nation.
Very sad.
The German Constitution was approved by an indirect democratic process.

wiki

The draft was prepared at the preliminary Herrenchiemsee convention (10 – 23 August 1948) on the Herreninsel in the Chiemsee, a lake in southeastern Bavaria. The delegates at the Convention were appointed by the leaders of the newly formed (or newly reconstituted) Länder (states).
Beginning from 1 September 1948 the Parlamentarische Rat was working out the definite text of the Grundgesetz. The 65 members of the Parlamentarischer Rat were elected by the Parliaments of the German Länder with one deputy representing about 750.000 people. After being passed by the Parliamentary Council assembled at the Museum Koenig in Bonn on 8 May 1949 — the Museum was the only intact building in Bonn large enough to house the assembly — and after being approved by the occupying powers on 12 May 1949, it was ratified by the parliaments of all the Länder with the exception of Bavaria (Bayern). The Landtag of Bavaria rejected the Basic Law mainly because it was seen as not granting sufficient powers to the individual Länder, but at the same time decided that it would still come into force in Bavaria if two-thirds of the other Länder ratified it. On 23 May 1949, the German Basic Law was promulgated and came into force a day later. The time of legal nonentity ended, as the new West German state, the Federal Republic of Germany, came into being, although still under Western occupation.
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:18 PM
 
13,186 posts, read 14,933,248 times
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Originally Posted by itsjustmeagain View Post
I don't think they can withdraw. Why make such a treaty in the first place anyway?
Because in effect, most treaties are just fancy ways of saying "agreement" with no ramification for withdrawl.

Nations are sovereign and they can choose to enter or withdraw from treaty (agreement)

Iran could withdraw from the Nuclear Proliferation agreement and there is no punitive measure in place whatsoever.
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:21 PM
 
4,739 posts, read 4,417,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsjustmeagain View Post
The last few days I stumbled over the two plus four agreement that Germany signed in 1990.

Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I found Germany can only have maximum armed forces of 375000 and is not allowed to have nukes.

It seems like Germany is not really an sovereign nation. I mean Germany is arguably one of the most peaceful countries in this world. Why is France and Great Britain allowed to have nukes but not Germany?


I have no idea, that is insane. 375,000 military and no nukes?


Whatever could of happened to put that into place?



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