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Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt -- many people don't, as you know.
Of course we're against pedophilic behaviors. I assume you meant pedophilic attractions, and I agree with that too. No one wants to be a pedophile, and I've never heard of a pedophile trying to convince another one. On the other hand, we don't think pedophiles have to feel bad about themselves if they make and keep a commitment not to engage in sexual activity with children. One analogy is diabetes. No one wants to have it, but diabetics don't need to feel like bad people or ashamed of it.
I have not admitted my pedophilia to anyone in my offline life, mostly as a matter of self-preservation -- I could easily lose all my friends and social networks. I talk about my pedophilia online because I'd like to change that.
It's worth a word or two about how pedophilia starts. Teen boys realize it as they grow older but the kids they are attracted to don't. Society tells them they are monsters who will eventually abuse kids. They typically feel horrified and hate themselves. A few kill themselves, and a few figure they might as well abuse the kids since it's their fate anyway. The rest just suffer privately. We'd like them to know they can control their desires and live good lives -- like us (virped.org). It could be your son or brother or nephew.
Nobody should feel like a bad person for anything he hasn't actually done. If he does, I think that shows an unnecessary and potentially unhealthy level of intentional, yet false, patriotism, probably instigated by the flawed idealism that human beings are not as innately emotionally messed up as we all obviously are, some more than others. If people commit suicide because they have emotions dangerous to others, and haven't acted on them, I don't think those dangerous emotions to others were the primary problem. You might be the most honerable human being on the planet...or not. Probably not, but it's possible. There's no proof that you're not that I've seen or that you've stated. There are too many things people do that are evil. Thoughts can do harm, of course, and be dangerous, but they in themselves do not make someone a better or worse person.
In regards to post-abusers: Society should protect itself. I don't have children so I would not be a good judge of what level of protection is best. I view the question of whether or not I would forgive a post-abuser as irrelevant, in comparison to that even unforgiveable past crimes have no necessary bearing on future actions. Basically, I desire them to focus on all factors that would make repeat behavior less likely, and avoid all factors that would enhance the likelyhood of repeat behaviors. If forgiveness would assist them in this...yeah, okay. We're cool I feel much the same way about most felons. There will be no forgetting though.
I suspect that there are some people who do want to be pedophiles though...people accurately described as monsters. They may or may not always have been that way.
I think so much hysteria has come into the issue. And the government responds with illogical solutions. It seems Amerit***s are driven by emotion, little logic is involved. And it is hypocritical.....a grown woman "Dates" a 15 year old young man and there is no calls for castration or slaughter........even jokes about the relationship.
So in my opinion, the definition should be changed and Amerit***s should calm down. People consider a 30 year old guy having a relationship with a 15 year old girl Pedophila......it is not.....look up the definition.
IMHO much of the rest of the world is more grown up than the USA when it comes to sex. I think 13 is a reasonable age where a young adult can make decisions about whom they want to be with.
As for anyone having sex with prepubescents......very harsh punishment is merited. But when they do their time, they should be treated like humans.
The child is more important than the pedophile. Period. My judgement is right were it should be: protecting kids.
Let's suppose that a particular 14-year-old gay person goes to the city, looks for guys to pick up, succeeds in finding one, and remembers it fondly for the rest of his life. Would that boy feel "protected" by having his sex partner locked up, registered, maybe murdered? Because you see, I know many people in similar situations, who were sexually active before they were "legal" and have no regrets about it.
Let's suppose that a particular 14-year-old gay person goes to the city, looks for guys to pick up, succeeds in finding one, and remembers it fondly for the rest of his life. Would that boy feel "protected" by having his sex partner locked up, registered, maybe murdered? Because you see, I know many people in similar situations, who were sexually active before they were "legal" and have no regrets about it.
The way I see it, not all adult-child sex ends up being harmful, as your example clearly shows. But I think all adult-child sex carries the risk of serious harm, and no one can know in advance that an encounter will turn out not to be harmful. Twenty-year-olds can feel devastated by a sexual encounter that they consented to if their partner lied to them and abandons them. It's not as if everything is suddenly fine when people turn 16 (or 18), but of course we have to draw a line somewhere.
In the example you cited, the 14-year-old is off the hook because he's a minor. The adult man is taking a large moral as well as legal risk. If the boy feels good about it, he should know enough not to report it. If he never reports it, his adult partner will have escaped unharmed. I also think that if a liaison is discovered and a young teen insists over the course of months and years that what happened was entirely consensual (from her or his point of view), either prosecutors shouldn't pursue the case or the sentence should be reduced.
There is very little upside for the child. What I've never heard is some adult who looks back and says, "Gee, if Mr. Smith had only been sexual with me when I was 14, my life would have been so much better." Young teens will grow into legal sexuality soon enough. If they're desperate they can experiment with their peers. Adult-child sex is wrong.
In the example you cited, the 14-year-old is off the hook because he's a minor. The adult man is taking a large moral as well as legal risk. If the boy feels good about it, he should know enough not to report it. If he never reports it, his adult partner will have escaped unharmed. I also think that if a liaison is discovered and a young teen insists over the course of months and years that what happened was entirely consensual (from her or his point of view), either prosecutors shouldn't pursue the case or the sentence should be reduced.
That's reasonable, but 1. The authorities don't usually care what the "victim" says if it's sympathetic to the "perpetrator" and 2. There are cases that are more subtle than the example I gave but are still problematic. A person who was not directly harmed by a certain event but who absorbs the idea that it was abusive, harmful, disgusting for a long enough period of time, will eventually come to believe it. Furthermore, taking people who are like the example I gave: the now-grown young person may not process or define what happened to him as abuse, but yet that very same person might refer to the very same event as abuse when it happens in anyone else's case, without considering his own history. The cognitive dissonance on this subject is amazing.
I think so much hysteria has come into the issue. And the government responds with illogical solutions. It seems Amerit***s are driven by emotion, little logic is involved. And it is hypocritical.....a grown woman "Dates" a 15 year old young man and there is no calls for castration or slaughter........even jokes about the relationship.
So in my opinion, the definition should be changed and Amerit***s should calm down. People consider a 30 year old guy having a relationship with a 15 year old girl Pedophila......it is not.....look up the definition.
IMHO much of the rest of the world is more grown up than the USA when it comes to sex. I think 13 is a reasonable age where a young adult can make decisions about whom they want to be with.
As for anyone having sex with prepubescents......very harsh punishment is merited. But when they do their time, they should be treated like humans.
This has merit...
...except what thirteen year old is not overflowing with newly discovered hormones and incapable of intelligent long term thought? I've met very few such persons.
...except what thirteen year old is not overflowing with newly discovered hormones and incapable of intelligent long term thought? I've met very few such persons.
You have a point. The question is, how much damage are we going to do in the process of protecting them from their lack of judgment? At what point is the remedy worse than the disease? That's a question almost no one is capable of formulating or asking in this country.
Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt -- many people don't, as you know.
Of course we're against pedophilic behaviors. I assume you meant pedophilic attractions, and I agree with that too. No one wants to be a pedophile, and I've never heard of a pedophile trying to convince another one. On the other hand, we don't think pedophiles have to feel bad about themselves if they make and keep a commitment not to engage in sexual activity with children. One analogy is diabetes. No one wants to have it, but diabetics don't need to feel like bad people or ashamed of it.
I have not admitted my pedophilia to anyone in my offline life, mostly as a matter of self-preservation -- I could easily lose all my friends and social networks. I talk about my pedophilia online because I'd like to change that.
It's worth a word or two about how pedophilia starts. Teen boys realize it as they grow older but the kids they are attracted to don't. Society tells them they are monsters who will eventually abuse kids. They typically feel horrified and hate themselves. A few kill themselves, and a few figure they might as well abuse the kids since it's their fate anyway. The rest just suffer privately. We'd like them to know they can control their desires and live good lives -- like us (virped.org). It could be your son or brother or nephew.
Since you are here, what exactly is it that attracts you to children?
Is it physical? I mean, I am normal, and I could very well list things that I find physically attractive about a woman. Are you attracted to both sexes? Do you have a type so to speak, like the way I am mostly attracted to dark women.
Or is it emotional? Did anything out of the ordinary happen while you were growing up? Some say MJ had such feelings as well, I don't know. It would not surprise me considering the way he grew up. He lost his innocent childhood to a cruel father and business.
Are you in a normal relationship as well, married?
You have a point. The question is, how much damage are we going to do in the process of protecting them from their lack of judgment? At what point is the remedy worse than the disease? That's a question almost no one is capable of formulating or asking in this country.
I'd be okay with sixteen. Teenagers will probably remain weak in the area of forethought till their twenties, but I do think they should have a few years to learn about themselves before potentially becomming a parent. That gives them three. Fifteen could be reasonable too.
In the entire history of human existence on Earth, there isn't even one single bona fide case of sexual offender being rehabilitated.
Why? It's the way their brains are wired.
The first step in the process of rehabilitation is admitting that what you did was wrong. Sexual offenders can never get past the first step, because they don't see what they do as being wrong or immoral or illegal.
I've had to interrogate a number of sex offenders, some rapists, some weeny-waggers, some pedophiles or paraphiles, and such. They will tell you up front that you are the one who is wrong, because you don't enjoy raping or whatever it is that they do.
So how can you possibly rehabilitate someone who sees their actions as "normal" and you are the one who is "abnormal?"
It cannot be done.
I suppose I should point out that not everyone who commits a sex offense is a sexual offender. I'm not talking about "date rape" and other acts of general stupidity.
There is a very clear and distinct difference between a drunk guy who has sex with a drunk girl, and then a guy who intentionally gets a girl drunk, or drugs her, for the express intended purpose of sex.
Those are two different animals. The former is just drunk and stupid, and can be rehabilitated, while the latter is an inherently evil person who is broken and can never be fixed, so it would be in everyone's best interest to have them taken out and shot.
Delinquently....
Mircea
PLEASE!!!! AGAIN!!! "SEX OFFENDER" DOES NOT EQUAL PEDOPHILE
Please..because a lot of people see the words "sex offender" and assume they are a pedophile.
"SEX OFFENDER" is a label and can include anyone who has done a "crime" of a "sexual nature" which in some states includes skinny-dipping, having sex in a public place, streaking, mooning, peeing behind bushes etc.
"PEDOPHILE" is a diagnosis
Not every person who has "molested" someone is a pedophile either
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I feel much the same way about most felons. There will be no forgetting though.
