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And you're trying to start an argument with me about what, exactly?
As a note, you certainly can compare numbers tested from year to year or decade to decade. You can also start spotting trends such as scores began dropping as the number of testers rose. You can then extrapolate that the reason is because more unprepared students are taking the test.
I'm somewhat sick of the SAT right now. I proctored a field test of it today for selected students. Scores which will not count and the students will not be able to submit to colleges.
Oh, on October 17th every Senior in my suburban DC area system is taking the SAT. Every. Single. Senior. Including students in Special Ed. Guess what those scores will look like (and we already have a 75% SAT test rate). In February we do it all over again for the Juniors.
You started an argument with me and I just pointed out the truth........ you can't just guess how people would do on a test who didn't take it
The fact is that the numbers are going down and much of it has to do with parents letting their kids down at home.....unprepared students can be a reason but why are they unprepared? Bad teachers failing to prepare them? Bad home situation?
Instead of making excuses, why not address the problem like these so called experts are failing to do
You started an argument with me and I just pointed out the truth........ you can't just guess how people would do on a test who didn't take it
The fact is that the numbers are going down and much of it has to do with parents letting their kids down at home.....unprepared students can be a reason but why are they unprepared? Bad teachers failing to prepare them? Bad home situation?
Instead of making excuses, why not address the problem like these so called experts are failing to do
THIS is not a fact. This is your opinion.
We can guess how people will do on tests that they aren't prepared for. If you have students who took advanced English courses during their junior and senior years, and you have students who only took one basic English course, the tests WILL show a difference between the Advanced English students and the basic English students. Advanced English students will be more familiar with the criteria they are being tested on, and better prepared to perform well on the test. We know this is true. Hence, the many SAT preparation courses that are offered to high school students.
We can guess how people will do on tests that they aren't prepared for. If you have students who took advanced English courses during their junior and senior years, and you have students who only took one basic English course, the tests WILL show a difference between the Advanced English students and the basic English students. Advanced English students will be more familiar with the criteria they are being tested on, and better prepared to perform well on the test. We know this is true. Hence, the many SAT preparation courses that are offered to high school students.
And so is everything else regarding what is opinion...... as far as who helps get student prepared..... who plays the biggest role? Teachers? Parents? I mean, really, all I hear is excuses and no solutions proposed by you
Where do you think the schools are where more kids are in advanced placement classes? More weathy areas generally and these are generally more stable family areas as well. The more stable the area is with family stability, the more money there is and the better the schools will be with more student success..... which is what I have been saying all along.
Do you really think it is helpful for some kid to be in a broken home for him or her to succeed? You are really trying hard to defend this bad parenting thing....
As a note, the CollegeBoard does collect demographic/family income/first language/parental education attainment information as a part of the testing program. In AP it's done at the pre-registration meeting while with the SAT it's done the day of the test.
Look, the reality is that certain minority groups score poorly on the SAT. They also score poorly on the ACT and IQ tests. As long as the number of minorities in this country increases, our average scores at every academic level should drop.
I get so tired of hearing about how test scores track to poverty, as if to pretend that poverty causes low test scores. And that somehow if everyone was on the same socio-economic level, that we would all test the same.
That is simply an illogical assertion, even family members don't test equally.
The reality is poverty doesn't cause low test scores, the inability to take tests correlates with a general inability to learn, which correlates to poverty.
I say this because I was born in public housing. My mother had five children, only one even graduated from high school. Yet, every single one of us score far above-average in any test you ever threw at us. What I would consider my least intelligent sibling(meth addict, loser) even scored a 27 on her ACT. My oldest sister took an IQ test and scored a 134. I've never personally taken an SAT, ACT, or IQ test, but on standardized national tests all through school, I consistently ranked in the high 90's in all subjects. In math I was generally in the 98th percentile. And I simply did not care about school whatsoever, slept through my classes, and was annoyed by the extent at which almost everyone else seemed to be such complete morons. Constantly asking how to spell simple words, which constantly slowed down real learning in the classroom. People who just don't understand complex math, no matter how many times and how slowly you try to explain it to them.
So I take great offense to the idea that poverty somehow causes low test scores. I take great offense to the idea that someone has to feel education is incredibly important to do well on tests. I see it as, either you have it or you don't. And some people just don't have it. And it isn't even their fault, they were born that way.
I just say, lets be honest. Based on demographics, why would anyone in the world believe that our test scores would rise into the future? You know, since the dumbest people in this country tend to have the most kids. You know, because the fastest growing populations in the world consistently perform the poorest on all academic tests. I mean, lets be realistic for a minute. The world is quickly becoming the movie Idiocracy, and you people seem to want to live in the land of denial.
Look, the reality is that certain minority groups score poorly on the SAT. They also score poorly on the ACT and IQ tests. As long as the number of minorities in this country increases, our average scores at every academic level should drop.
I get so tired of hearing about how test scores track to poverty, as if to pretend that poverty causes low test scores. And that somehow if everyone was on the same socio-economic level, that we would all test the same.
That is simply an illogical assertion, even family members don't test equally.
The reality is poverty doesn't cause low test scores, the inability to take tests correlates with a general inability to learn, which correlates to poverty.
I say this because I was born in public housing. My mother had five children, only one even graduated from high school. Yet, every single one of us score far above-average in any test you ever threw at us. What I would consider my least intelligent sibling(meth addict, loser) even scored a 27 on her ACT. My oldest sister took an IQ test and scored a 134. I've never personally taken an SAT, ACT, or IQ test, but on standardized national tests all through school, I consistently ranked in the high 90's in all subjects. In math I was generally in the 98th percentile. And I simply did not care about school whatsoever, slept through my classes, and was annoyed by the extent at which everyone else seemed to be such complete morons. Constantly asking how to spell simple words, which constantly slowed down real learning in the classroom. People who just don't understand complex math, no matter how many times and how slowly you try to explain it to them.
So I take great offense to the idea that poverty somehow causes low test scores. I take great offense to the idea that someone has to feel education is incredibly important to do well on tests. I see it as, either you have it or you don't. And some people just don't have it. And it isn't even their fault, they were born that way.
I just say, lets be honest. Based on demographics, why would anyone in the world believe that our test scores would rise into the future? You know, since the poorest and least-educated people are having the most kids. You know, because the fastest growing populations in the world consistently perform the poorest on all academic tests. I mean, lets be realistic for a minute. The world is quickly becoming the movie Idiocracy, and you people seem to want to live in the land of denial.
I did not say that poverty, by itself, results in bad test scores. I said that poverty is MORE LIKELY to result in bad family situations which result in lower attainment.
Of course there are good solid poor families out there. There are broken well off families too...... the statistics point toward higher likelihood though
I did not say that poverty, by itself, results in bad test scores. I said that poverty is MORE LIKELY to result in bad family situations which result in lower attainment.
Of course there are good solid poor families out there. There are broken well off families too...... the statistics point toward higher likelihood though
I understand the correlation of poverty to low scores. But when people discuss this correlation, it is always to imply that poverty is the cause of the low scores. Usually in some social justice crusade to end poverty and to promote equality.
What they fail to realize is that, the most logical assumption one would take from looking at the facts, is that in a society where high IQ tends to produce higher levels of economic success. That it is far less likely that poverty causes an inability to perform well on tests, but rather that performing poorly on tests means you will most likely be less economically successful.
So while the correlation is true, what we take from the correlation differs.
All I am saying is, if we continue to focus on this belief that everyone is born inherently equal. And that our environments are the only true factor that differentiates our outcomes. Then we are ignoring the realities of human genetic diversity, and how it relates to our cognitive functioning. And if we continue this policy where we ignore the future based on demographic patterns of the kinds of people who consistently perform poorly on tests. Then we should not be surprised when our nations test scores continue to plummet.
I mean, except from a massive immigration into America from East Asia, why would anyone believe that our test scores won't continue to slide?
Society is in the gutter. What did you expect? Being smart is not cool, and it's even looked own upon in the school. The kid that might have a chance is pushed aside so the worst of the brats can suck up all the resources. And when teachers teach the test, kids never learn how to function independently, think critically, apply logic, or be of any value to anyone ever. Yes, jobs will continue to leave the country because your kids won't be good enough to do them for any wage. They'll have to get rid of minimum wage before the current crop of kids can be worth a job. You reap what you sow.
And looking at our pathetic tests scores, it's frighting that people want MORE government... Makes me think the parents are the ones who should really be given the lecture... These kids are simply towing the line and doing the best they can with the deck of cards they were handed.
"We" can't fix it if the communities who have the highest levels of single parent homes and welfare payments refuse to admit there is a problem...
There isn't a problem. America wants an oversized military, Social Security, corporate welfare, and all sorts of other welfare. Those communities have learned well from the American masters of corruption and welfare.
There can't be anything wrong with accepting welfare for sitting around if there's nothing wrong with accepting a paycheck that is subsidized by the government.
I warned you all..................when they put Jersey Shore and The Kardashians on tv............that was the beginning of the end of an intellectual society
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