Terrible treatment of our Vets in VA hospitals (unemployment, Congress, Iraq)

[Elvira Black]

This is a long standing beef of mine, since my b/f is a Viet era vet and has literally almost been killed multiple times due to the atrocious level of "care" at VA hospitals.

Our tax dollars pay for this, and the VA is basically unaccountable for the money they spend and how they spend it, or so it seems to me since the VA's are government funded.

I keep telling him he could be a millionaire many times over if he sued the doctors, but he still goes there even though he has Medicare coverage.

One incident among many:

He saw a "dentist" for five years. She did virtually no work on his teeth, but would leave the room for long periods of time, do "temporary" fillings (what are those, I wonder), and from what my b/f told me did some suggestive things as well. When she finally left, the kid gloves came off and she treated him dismissively. The next dentist he saw had to fill about 17 cavities, and he'd lost teeth as well thanks to her.

He was not the only victim. This woman was clearly crazy and incompetent, but they let her ignore the Hippocratic oath for years and years and did nothing. I don't think she was fired; she had a sick mom she was going to care for (and probably inherit whatever she had). But they never really tell you what happened when a person leaves.

If you complain, they back each other up because the VA's policy is to deny all wrongdoing.

I can just imagine the "quality care" all the Iraqi vets will be getting for their PTSD, missing limbs, etc etc. Everyone knows the stereotyped image of the crazed Vietnam vet. This is shaping up to be worse...plus which it is very hard to get a job in the private sector when you come home---thus the relatively high percentage of homeless/unemployed vets.

What do you think? And is there anything that can be done?

[ontheroad]

A lawsuit probably would be useless unless your b/f has enuf money or can get a pro-bono attorney to launch a good case. Many government entities are self-insured and not held liable.

However, if the veterans, as a group, really began to speak up about the poor care in most of the facilities, perhaps something could significantly be improved throughout the system.

Also for the record, not all VAs are equal, some are definitely better than others, and those affiliated with another major hospital are actually very good.

He may also wish to look for better care within the system, but elsewhere.

[texanborn]

I have been using the VA Hospital for years and feel they have treated me as good as my doctors did when I had private insurance...The VA has been under funded for years and there are only two places that control the funding, that's the White House and Congress. You need to have your BF to talk to his Congress person. They have people in their offices just for what you are talking about.

I have heart problems and my Doctor at the VA has even called me at home to see how I am doing....My Doctors out of the VA have never done that.

There should also be a department at the VA Hospital your BF goes to that will look into what you have said here.

Support All Veterans.

[Elvira Black]

Thanks ontheroad--yes, I'm sure care is better in some VA's but I think on the whole it could be a heck of a lot better. My b/f goes to the Bronx and Manhattan VA's (and has been to facilities elsewhere), and the Manhattan VA is, I believe, affiliated with Bellevue and NYU. The facilities themselves are fairly well kept--it's some of the personnel who leave a lot to be desired. I understand they are the largest health care system in the country, and very strong in research, etc.

Thing is, there are so many lawyers out there who will take on malpractice/accident/medication side effects cases that I suspect someone might be willing to do so. I know vets have been able to fight for VA disability successfully in any case..

The recent Walter Reed debacle was a hot item for awhile, but I haven't heard much about it lately. From reading websites that list wrongful deaths due to VA "treatment," there are cases where vets or their surviving families have won wrongful death lawsuits based on egregious neglect, indifference, and incompetence. Millions are awarded, which also cuts into the VA budget, and further compromises care. IMO it's an example of yet another wasteful government run bureaucracy where even if someone tries to blow the whistle it is hard to stop the abuses since there seems to be a tacit agreement not to admit to any fault.

[ontheroad]

Everything you say is undoubtedly true.

I hadn't realized you live in NY. I worked at the Bellevue-NYU complex for a dozen years, and we had cross-over with the VA. Pity it isn't better, but it is probably yes, among the largest, and potentially among the best VAs in the country.

It is also a pity that we couldn't keep the media on the Walter Reed issues. But, what is a sadder story is how little the press covered the story. WRAH was among the best facilities in the country, barring none, in former years, and many government employees fought to get service there, military or otherwise.

The health care system is in shambles, and the VA system is just a part of this crumbling foundation.

Originally Posted by Elvira Black

Thanks ontheroad--yes, I'm sure care is better in some VA's but I think on the whole it could be a heck of a lot better. My b/f goes to the Bronx and Manhattan VA's (and has been to facilities elsewhere), and the Manhattan VA is, I believe, affiliated with Bellevue and NYU. The facilities themselves are fairly well kept--it's some of the personnel who leave a lot to be desired. I understand they are the largest health care system in the country, and very strong in research, etc.

Thing is, there are so many lawyers out there who will take on malpractice/accident/medication side effects cases that I suspect someone might be willing to do so. I know vets have been able to fight for VA disability successfully in any case..

The recent Walter Reed debacle was a hot item for awhile, but I haven't heard much about it lately. From reading websites that list wrongful deaths due to VA "treatment," there are cases where vets or their surviving families have won wrongful death lawsuits based on egregious neglect, indifference, and incompetence. Millions are awarded, which also cuts into the VA budget, and further compromises care. IMO it's an example of yet another wasteful government run bureaucracy where even if someone tries to blow the whistle it is hard to stop the abuses since there seems to be a tacit agreement not to admit to any fault.

[Elvira Black]

texanborn, it's good to know that you're getting such good care. In some ways my b/f does as well, but it's often the luck of the draw. It is great that he can see doctors for virtually any specialty, and they make followup appointments so there's no gaps in care and for necessary periodic tests.

But having relied on private insured care all my life, I have received mostly excellent care by top doctors and staff who treat patients with respect. At the VA, that respect is often lacking. You can get a good doctor one time, and a horrible one another time.

There is a Patient's Representative vets can see for problems. He's never done so, so I don't know how effective it is, esp if it's funded by the VA. I think World War II vets generally don't put up a fuss, and Vietnam Vets with emotional and drug problems don't always keep appointments, etc. I can understand the frustration doctors and staff can experience with uncooperative or difficult patients, but my b/f is usually a "model patient." Long story short, his care varies, but there have been too many truly life-threatening instances over the years that I don't feel are excusable.

From what I understand, to cut costs many foreign born staff and doctors are used, some of whom do not even speak English well enough to communicate. I've read about the practice of doctors who double dip, taking their VA salary while working elsewhere and leaving residents to make crucial decisions on their own, and so on.

I think perhaps that vets are less likely to speak up because they feel it would be disloyal to do so, or something.

[Elvira Black]

Agreed, ontheroad. My hope is that the fallout from the Iraqi war and the fact that, unlike Vietnam, our troops are supported at home whether we agree with the war or not will help more this time around. I do see coverage here and there. Apparently the Iraqui war has already produced more amputees than the Civil War. Family members have testified in congress after the Walter Reed scandal too. PTSD is acknowleged as a widespread side effect of the war.

I hope this will be an example of making some good come out of a terrible situation. These vets deserve the best care money can buy for serving their country--not to mention that it is an all volunteer force. I think it is shameful to have these young kids redeployed involuntarily--especially since many are already damaged psychologically. Many of us feel now like we were lied to about the war, and to have so many young men dying under what many would consider false pretenses is truly tragic.

[Elvira Black]

ontheroad, since you worked at the VA, do you agree based on your experience that something "must" be done? What do you think could be done, if anything, to improve the quality of staff, doctors, and care in the VA system? Do you think if enough people fight back that it may make a difference?

[danielpalos]

Originally Posted by Elvira Black

This is shaping up to be worse...plus which it is very hard to get a job in the private sector when you come home---thus the relatively high percentage of homeless/unemployed vets.

What do you think? And is there anything that can be done?

A subsidy income could be made available as easily as applying for unemployment insurance.

I think you should lobby your legislators to end welfare, as we know it; and, implement better forms of at-will unemployment insurance.

The infrastructure is already there, and could be funded initially, with block grants from the federal government if necessary.

[ontheroad]

I hope that we cure the system, and help the Vets.

The system has been broken for a long time; the Vets have often gotten short-shrifted.

The VA, overall, does not have a sufficient budget to handle the number of veterans that have experienced long-term medical conditions, like PTSD, and it does have some staff who can handle and provide good health care, but often they come and go, quickly, because the difference in the pay scale between a physician solely at the VA and Bellevue is enormous.

We can hope; but we can also work for improving the overall health care system, with a key to improving all care for veterans, and other long ignored sub-populations.

And for the record, many private and public hospitals have been hiring non-English speakers (first language) to compensate for a shortage of physicians who will work in a) rural areas; b) underfunded communities; c) public hopsitals (like NYCHHC), and many other alphabets.

I personally received emergency care in Geneva NY and nearly sued them for mismanaging a broken wrist. The physician didn't know a bone from a sinew.

Good luck with the issue as it is more personal in your case, and philosophical in mine.

Originally Posted by Elvira Black

Agreed, ontheroad. My hope is that the fallout from the Iraqi war and the fact that, unlike Vietnam, our troops are supported at home whether we agree with the war or not will help more this time around. I do see coverage here and there. Apparently the Iraqui war has already produced more amputees than the Civil War. Family members have testified in congress after the Walter Reed scandal too. PTSD is acknowleged as a widespread side effect of the war.

I hope this will be an example of making some good come out of a terrible situation. These vets deserve the best care money can buy for serving their country--not to mention that it is an all volunteer force. I think it is shameful to have these young kids redeployed involuntarily--especially since many are already damaged psychologically. Many of us feel now like we were lied to about the war, and to have so many young men dying under what many would consider false pretenses is truly tragic.