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Moving religious expression over a few meters (not allowing it to be on the school's banner) is so NOT prohibiting free speech
I took four laps around the park with him on this particular point last night. Apparently, my 1st Amendment rights are being curtailed when my public sector employer prohibits me from saying anything I want at my workplace.
What part of the Constitution requires me to pray "privately"?
As for free speech, the only time I have an issue with someone else's speech is when that speech is intended to silence others or otherwise restrict their rights.
Insisting that others pray privately so as to not offend religion haters would be a fine example of an attempt to stifle free speech and free exercise of religion.
I was told 30 pages ago that I was "off-topic" when I asked this, but what did Jesus tell you to do with your public testimonies? If I were a Christian pondering one of these public testimonies, the first thing I would ask, before, "Is it constitutional," would be, "What did my savior instruct me to do?" Why is it you geniuses cannot follow the simple instructions your savior gave you when it comes to praying? Why is it that 9 times out of 10, the non-believer knows more about your silly religion than you do? I'll tell you why this insistence on testifying persists among these half-witted neanderthals: It's not about paying tribute to your god, it's not about building community, it's not even about winning football games...it's about making a defiant statement to your imaginary enemies who you believe to be taking away from you your right to worship. And you don't even have the stones to make a stand yourselves, you have to use your quarter-witted progeny to take the brunt of it. Jesus is so, so disappointed in you.
I was told 30 pages ago that I was "off-topic" when I asked this, but what did Jesus tell you to with your public testimonies? If I were a Christian pondering one of these public testimonies, the first thing I would ask, before, "Is it constitutional," would be, "What did my savior instruct me to do?"
Then Jesus said to them, "So wherever you go in the world, tell everyone the Good News.
Mark 16:15
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Why is it you geniuses cannot follow the simple instructions your savior gave you when it comes to praying? Why is it that 9 times out of 10, the non-believer knows more about your silly religion than you do? I'll tell you why this insistence on testifying persists among these half-witted neanderthals: It's not about paying tribute to your god, it's not about building community, it's not even about winning football games...it's about making a defiant statement to your imaginary enemies who you believe to be taking away from you your right to worship. And you don't even have the stones to make a stand yourselves, you have to use your quarter-witted progeny to take the brunt of it. Jesus is so, so disappointed in you.
Then Jesus said to them, "So wherever you go in the world, tell everyone the Good News.
Then Jesus said to them, "So wherever you go in the world, tell everyone the Good News.
Mark 16:15
Then Jesus said to them, "So wherever you go in the world, tell everyone the Good News.
Matthew 6:6
"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
This link has any number of instances of Jesus practicing private worship. It's actually quite clear to anyone interested in actually knowing how to go about doing it: Prayer -- Public and Private
"But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
This link has any number of instances of Jesus practicing private worship. It's actually quite clear to anyone interested in actually knowing how to go about doing it: Prayer -- Public and Private
"So they took away the stone. And Jesus looked upwards and said, 'Father, I thank you for having heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I have said this for the sake of the crowd standing here, so that they may believe that you sent me.'"
John 11:41-42.
Jesus prays that the gathered crowd, on seeing Lazarus return from the grave, will have faith in him and know that he is from God.
"So they took away the stone. And Jesus looked upwards and said, 'Father, I thank you for having heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I have said this for the sake of the crowd standing here, so that they may believe that you sent me.'"
John 11:41-42.
Jesus prays that the gathered crowd, on seeing Lazarus return from the grave, will have faith in him and know that he is from God.
Statements on a poster isn't prayer either.
It is a public testimony to God. You can play semantics all you wish. If someone holds up a sign containing the Lord's Prayer, I suppose that would not be a "prayer?"
Would you care to explain what these types of public testimonies accomplish for Christianity? Just try, as hard as you might, to leave aside the constitutional question for a second. Try. Try hard. What does this accomplish? Why is it needed at a school function?
Then Jesus said to them, "So wherever you go in the world, tell everyone the Good News.
Quote:
You can play semantics all you wish. If someone holds up a sign containing the Lord's Prayer, I suppose that would not be a "prayer?"
Maybe but that's not what happened here and as the scriptures point out Jesus prayed in public. Even the Lord's prayer.
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Would you care to explain what these types of public testimonies accomplish for Christianity? Just try, as hard as you might, to leave aside the constitutional question for a second. Try. Try hard. What does this accomplish? Why is it needed at a school function?
I've told you over and over, I do not care if they accomplish anything. I do not care if they are the wrong thing to do. I only care that they freely be able to express their beliefs, right or wrong.
Speaking only for myself, what I was getting at (with the bit about praying in the privacy of your own home) was in regards to those who want to pray into a microphone before the game.
And just because Jesus prayed to God in front of other people doesn't mean you should disregard his instructions to you.
Lets change this around. Instead of putting Christian messages and signs all over lets take out "Christian messages" and input "gay" or "Muslim" messages. Anyone think these same people fighting for the Christian message would stand up for others free speech? Just a thought...
I've told you over and over, I do not care if they accomplish anything. I do not care if they are the wrong thing to do. I only care that they freely be able to express their beliefs, right or wrong.
I didn't ask you if you care. I asked what you think they are trying to accomplish. I have hope that you might attempt to answer this, given that you previously told me that whether they were in keeping with the instructions Jesus gave them was not a concern of yours, but now you have taken the time to find Biblical verses that you think support your case.
Do you concede that public institutions may limit what employees and students may say or do you think the Constitution prohibits the state from restricting whatsoever what one wishes to say, be it of a religious nature or anything else? Does a school administrator have an interest and a legitimate argument to keep school functions focused on the matter at hand and thus prohibiting those things that have nothing to do with the school function? Let's say instead of merely holding up a prayer placard, these pawns began a 10-minute religious chant. Would you argue that an attempt to stymie the religious chant was a violation of the 1st Amendment rights of the students? What if they wished to give a 10-minute lecture on the benefits of veganism? Now, admittedly, diet and what we choose to eat is far more relevant to athletic competition than "We love Jesus" signs and sentiments, but I think we can both agree that both are distractions from the actual event. SHould we tolerate anything that wishes to be said at these events, lest we violate the 1st Amendment?
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