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Old 10-08-2007, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
8,323 posts, read 15,164,623 times
Reputation: 4957

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There's really no answer that would make everybody happy. No matter what we, as a people, or we, as a government, do... somebody's not going to be happy.

1) Pay them more - make the "middle" class workers angry. "I wish I could make $15/hr flipping burgers"


2) Assist with housing, food, healthcare - make the middle class and high class upset "Why should my tax dollars not pay for the lack of initiative of that person"

3) Let them be ((no aid))- poor families would remain poor with little access to doctors, decent food, or decent education ((no aid means no FAFSA!)) beyond K-12. It would be just like Europe before the Black Plague.

4) Get rid of those jobs - make the ex-workers of those jobs mad and crash the economy ((seriously, what do you think would happen if only teenagers went to work at say Taco Smell, Walz-mart, or McDoogles??))
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:17 AM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,767,629 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
Babies are the crux of the problem for you?
I said no such thing. You are distorting my words and not very well at that.


Quote:
Please, move along and get back to thumping your Bible. You are wasting the board's time.
I am an Agnostic and if insults are your best talent then perhaps its you who should consider moving along.
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,458,946 times
Reputation: 1052
Ok, I was only half right.
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:28 AM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,767,629 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
Ok, I was only half right.
No, quite wrong and very obnoxious. I gleefully await the baseless accusations of a silver spoon and pampered upbringing characterized by servants, gilded carriages and Ivy educations on demand.
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Old 10-08-2007, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,458,946 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
I implied that government cannot change culture and will only make the situation worse. Keeping the state out beyond a reasonable social security net is certainly part of the solution.

Otherwise, its obvious. Indeed, ridiculously obvious:

1) Prudent Family Planning: Do not have kids out of wedlock. Children are huge responsibilities. Do not do it. And even when married, do not have more than you can support. This is a no brainer. If you cannot afford them, do not have them.

2) Education: A strong back does not cut it anymore. Everyone will need a reasonable if not impressive level of education. This starts in Kindergarten if not before. Parents need to motive their kids, get involved with the schools and prepare and save something for ever higher levels.

Because its broken families that cause poverty.


1) Look, there it is, you put babies as #1 on your list, implying that it is the primary problem. So I am misinterpreting your rhetoric?

2) A woman can choose to have children, take herself more or less out of the economy to care for them for the first several years, then go back into the economy. This happens all the time. If the woman is employable, it can work out just fine. Again, this can be looked at as a "transitory" versus "entrenched" poverty assessment.

3) "Broken families that cause poverty." Nice platitude. What causes broken families? What is a broken family? What social pressures might bring about a broken family? Mental illness, poor decisions, a long series of poor decisions, alcoholism, gambling, lax morality? You post no context nor insight for your platitudes. The world is obviously such a simple place in which to live.

4) Anyone can benefit from more education to improve employability. Parents need to encourage their children in school. Great platitudes. Are you aware of any actual studies to investigate how this relationship might be breaking down? However, we need practical programs, not platitudes. You seem to have no knowledge of practical programs, but you don't acknowledge this.
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,458,946 times
Reputation: 1052
"government cannot change culture "


This is an almost asinine non sequitur. What do you mean by culture? Does government need to change "culture" do accomplish productive change in the society? How would you know whether government changes "culture" or not. You seem to take this as a given. In Iran, the government certainly endeavors to change the nation's "culture" by legislating as to what to wear, when to be on the streets, travel inside and outside the country, etc. If these laws affect people's behavior, do they not eventually change the "culture"? The same goes for any government.

Do you think that U.S. and U.K. government advertising campaigns against smoking have had no effect? Government actions can certainly change behavor.
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:05 PM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,767,629 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
1) Look, there it is, you put babies as #1 on your list, implying that it is the primary problem. So I am misinterpreting your rhetoric?
Yes you are. And you are lying by terming it rhetoric.

Quote:
2) A woman can choose to have children, take herself more or less out of the economy to care for them for the first several years, then go back into the economy. This happens all the time. If the woman is employable, it can work out just fine. Again, this can be looked at as a "transitory" versus "entrenched" poverty assessment.
Sure, but this example is appropriate if a women has a solid, well-earning career. I am talking about teenagers having children without the necessary support structure of a marketable education and most of all, a husband who is going to stick around. This a sure fire way to a life of dependency and malaise.

Quote:
3) "Broken families that cause poverty." Nice platitude. What causes broken families? What is a broken family? What social pressures might bring about a broken family? Mental illness, poor decisions, a long series of poor decisions, alcoholism, gambling, lax morality? You post no context nor insight for your platitudes. The world is obviously such a simple place in which to live.
One more time: Uneducated teens having children out of wedlock is going to spawn instability and social disorder. This is obvious. How you can brush this aside is beyond me. Are you saying its not a problem?


Quote:
4) Anyone can benefit from more education to improve employability. Parents need to encourage their children in school. Great platitudes. Are you aware of any actual studies to investigate how this relationship might be breaking down? However, we need practical programs, not platitudes. You seem to have no knowledge of practical programs, but you don't acknowledge this.
Are you serious? Actual studies. Well start with Pat Moniyhan's from 1965. Plenty more and you can Google to your heart's content. Better yet, hit a library.

Practical programs? They're called SCHOOLS! Maybe people should take advantage of them and <gasp!> embrace education.

Quote:
Nice platitude
One more time: Either you can make your point without sanctimonious crap or you cannot. Be gone if you are not up to the task.
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,458,946 times
Reputation: 1052
You didn't use the word TEENAGER in your previous post! Please get your story straight, man!
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:08 PM
 
13,648 posts, read 20,767,629 times
Reputation: 7650
Quote:
This is an almost asinine non sequitur. What do you mean by culture?
Its called a dictionary. Use it.

Quote:
Does government need to change "culture" do accomplish productive change in the society?
I believe the main premise of my argument is that government is not up to that task. Were you paying attention rather than engaging in your dancing buffoon act, you would have read that.

Now take a hike.
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Old 10-08-2007, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
4,714 posts, read 8,458,946 times
Reputation: 1052
A school is not a program. Please try again.
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