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LOL - Explain to me how health insurance is a Republican or Democrat issue? The real shame here is how much medical procedures cost.... period.
My wife just had spine surgery. $22,500 in an outpatient setting. We don't have insurance and insurance wouldn't have covered it anyhow. You had to pay before they would do the procedure. It was a flat fee. We did not get charges for each and every bandaid, stitch, medicine, etc. They even included lunch, physical therapy DVD and a 24 hour staffed hotline should we need to call. This place does tons of spinal surgeries each year, people fly in from around the country to have it performed by the capable staff. I think $22,500 is still ridiculous, but a similar procedure in a hospital would have cost significantly more with inferior care. Along with a bill for each pain killer, bandaid and shot itemized out at a ridiculous markup.
Explain to me how if I self pay at an urgent care place, I pay about $89 for the visit, but when I had insurance they were bill $200+. It's all sham. I blame Big Pharma, Special Interest Groups and Insurance Company Lobbyists.
Heck, I've hear there is going to be a shortage of doctor's in the next couple decades because it is no longer a lucrative career for how much debt and how long it takes to become a doc. Malpractice insurance makes it too expensive to have your own private practice, so instead they work for these large medical groups for less pay. Supposed being an ARNP is where it's at these days. They go through a lot less school, do the same tasks most MDs do at family practices and get paid nearly the same.
So.... why are medical costs going up? Because they're making more profit now than ever before off of our misery and pain.
because EVERYTHING is going up
Should we FORCE doctors and nurses to work for minimum wage. and have offices in huts
when your doctor charges you $100...its not $100 going into his pocket
he/she still has to pay rent/lease/mortgage
still has to pay an electric bill
still has to pay for supplies
still has to pay THE NURSE/RECEPTIONIST/RECORDS KEEPER
still has to pay ofr that mri/xray machine (equipment) etc
and you are not going to lower THOSE costs by the government or insuance
.
how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or xray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in denmark(((((((why does that PROCEEDURE of getting an MRI cost 4k???.......because the MACHINE itself cost 1.4 million dollars.......and the tech that runs it has to make ATLEAST minimum wage......and then the DOCTOR/SPECIALIST has to READ(analyze) the MRI
it can take YEARS before that machine has even paid for itself..and you have the cost of the personnel and the electric to run it, on top of that)))))))
how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????
(((((you understand the AVERAGE hospital spends 430,000 dollars a MONTH on ELECTRICITY ALONE...that's 5,160,000 (5.1 million) a year just in electric costs...not to mention custodial costs, food costs, laundry costs, sanitation costs, staff costs, etc)))))))....you realize how many hospitals have GONE OUT OF BUSINESS because they cant make a profit enough to stay afloat...and the government is a good part of the problem
how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????
how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystirene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that arent even american
how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???
how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linnon cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????
how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????the biggest expense for Dr's today. MALPRACTRICE INSURANCE This cost drives many Dr's out of practice and shoves them into working in Labs or other institutions that cover their insurance if the screw up.
dont you get it... medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesnt have)
want to know why its lower in those other countries...a nurse in france(actually most of europe) makes about 1500-1800 a month(in us dollars)..that's 18-20000 a year.....meanwhile according to payscale.com the average Rn makes 40-78,000 in the usa
is that what you want??? do you want to be forced to work for nearly minimum wage
Because $300 a month is nothing in comparison to cancer. You're healthy until you're not - just because you're healthy today does not mean you won't get hit by a car or have a heart attack or be diagnosed with cancer tomorrow - all of which can amount to bills in the hundreds of thousands.
Good comment. And that was the point I tried to make in my previous post. If you get something fairly serious then medical bills can easily be beyond the average person's ability to pay. That is why you have insurance.
I have a friend that went without insurance for decades because she and her husband could not afford it. Then he was diagnosed with some expensive disease but was killed by a heart attack before the treatment started. Since "Obamacare" she has affordable health insurance.
IMHO - Obamacare is just a subsidy for the health insurance companies. They are no longer needed as the government can do the paperwork far less expensively and private health insurance is an unaffordable luxury. We should have a government sponsored universal health care system without private sector involvement in order to save money. When was the last time you heard of a government executive making millions a year in salary and bonus.
you are wrong about a singlepayer
we (the taxpayer) cant afford it
look at the cost of the LOWPAYING medicare/medicaid.....900 billion just to PARTIALLY cover less than 70 million people ......900 billion to cover 1/5 of the population
singlepayer would cost between 3 trillion and 6 trillion EVERY YEAR (we already spend 1 trillion so the NEW added cost would be 2-5 trillion)
we have 140 million tax FILERS, (of which nealy 50% dont pay anything)
3 trillion divided by 140 million is what.......$20,000
6 trillion divided by 150 million is what......$40,000
thats between 20k to 40k PER TAXPAYER.....CAN YOU AFFORD THAT.... polly?????
even if we we SOMEHOW able to get the costs down to lets say 5k per capita...thats still over 1.5 trillion a year...and the only way to keep costs down is the standard medicare/medicaid DENIALS (ie DENY CARE because of cost)
and let's not forget: Obesity rates among OECD nations increased in recent years, with the highest rate in the U.S. at 34.3% -- which means one in 3 Americans is by definition obese.
number of americans getting cancer (new cases) per year 1.8 million for a total of 19 million people being treated (fighting) each year...each year at least 570,000 die from cancer
number of americans with heart desease: 26.2 million and of those
((Number of visits with heart disease as primary diagnosis: 16 million ))
((Number of discharges with heart disease as first-listed diagnosis: 4.2 million))
number of americans in nursing homes: 2 million
More than 25 million Americans have significant vision loss.
(((hmmm more than 25 million americans are blind or going blind.....that's more than norway,finland, denmark,switzerland,and austria COMBINED TOTAL population....)))
number of americans with diabetes: 26 million
mumber of americans with asthma: 20 million....Each day 11 Americans die from asthma.
while some of those may overlap...look at those numbers 19,26,25,26,20...that's 116 million with MAJOR health problem,,costly problems......we will ALWAYS be the largest spender in the world...we have the 3rd hightest population in the world (next to china and india) and we have more people (total, not a percentage) with major problems than any other country in europe.....I just showed you at least 116 million people with cancer,heart,blindness, diabetes, asthma.......that's more than france and great britian COMBINED for their total populations.
singlepayer will not control these costs
how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or xray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in denmark
how are you going to control the cost of the rising electric bills the doctors/hospitals are facing????
how are you going to control the rising property tax/rent/mortgage that doctors face?????
how are you going to control the cost of supplies(gauze, plaster, silk, rubber, polystirene( a oil product)?????especially some supplies that arent even american
how are you going to control the cost of people salaries???? a maximum wage???
how they are going to control the employment costs for Doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital food operators, hospital linnon cleaning service, custodial services, medical transcribers........are you going to 'nationalize' every profession that is even remotely connected to medicine????
how are they going to control malpractice INSURANCE COSTS?????
dont you get it... medicine (like anyother SERVICE) costs money,,(,money that our government doesnt have)
why are you not complaining that housing costs have quadrupled in the last 30 years......why are you not complaining that the cost of automobiles has increase 10 times (dec-rupled(???)) (ie a mid size car cost $2500 in 1973.....a mid size car now is over 25,000)????????????????????????????????
I asked a simple question.....HOW are you going to control costs OF MEDICINE, not INSURANCE..........because you CANT...and it will get worse and worse as inflation devalues our dollar
Because $300 a month is nothing in comparison to cancer. You're healthy until you're not - just because you're healthy today does not mean you won't get hit by a car or have a heart attack or be diagnosed with cancer tomorrow - all of which can amount to bills in the hundreds of thousands.
Ok, here's my problem with this "logic". Who's business is it besides his, if he gets insurance to cover the "what if's" or not?? Is it really the government's job to FORCE everyone to buy insurance because we MIGHT need it someday?? Are they going to force everyone to buy mittens, gloves, snow shoes and a thick winter coat because we all MIGHT need it someday? Just because some people will for sure need those things because of where they live, doesn't mean that those of us who live in Las Vegas or San Diego need them, even if we might visit Northern Maine someday!
If I want to wear shorts, flip flops and go out in the snow with my hair wet, it's no ones business but my own! And the same applies to health insurance. If I don't want to buy it and use it I shouldn't be forced to or be TAXED because I didn't buy it! It's MY business what I buy to cover myself or my family in cases of emergency, not yours, not the governments, not anyone else's business. Plain and simple!
Ok, here's my problem with this "logic". Who's business is it besides his, if he gets insurance to cover the "what if's" or not?? Is it really the government's job to FORCE everyone to buy insurance because we MIGHT need it someday?? Are they going to force everyone to buy mittens, gloves, snow shoes and a thick winter coat because we all MIGHT need it someday? Just because some people will for sure need those things because of where they live, doesn't mean that those of us who live in Las Vegas or San Diego need them, even if we might visit Northern Maine someday!
If I want to wear shorts, flip flops and go out in the snow with my hair wet, it's no ones business but my own! And the same applies to health insurance. If I don't want to buy it and use it I shouldn't be forced to or be TAXED because I didn't buy it! It's MY business what I buy to cover myself or my family in cases of emergency, not yours, not the governments, not anyone else's business. Plain and simple!
Yes .... but .... if people who don't have health insurance show up at the ER or incur bills and then declare bankruptcy because they cannot pay them then it is you and I who end up paying. And that leads to the big dilemma in this debate. As a society, are we willing to let people die because they cannot afford treatment or didn't buy health insurance? Because, if the answer is 'no' then we need to find a fair way to pay for what is, in effect, universal coverage.
Because $300 a month is nothing in comparison to cancer. You're healthy until you're not - just because you're healthy today does not mean you won't get hit by a car or have a heart attack or be diagnosed with cancer tomorrow - all of which can amount to bills in the hundreds of thousands.
My best friend's niece who has been healthy all her life is now laying in ICU having just had surgery for stage 3 pancreatic cancer. She is only 46. Next up will be radiation and chemo. How could anyone but the very wealthy pay for what this kind of illness will cost? Three hundred a month is like a drop in the bucket by comparison. Also, this person was not a smoker or drinker. This is why I cannot stomach what we've been hearing this election cycle about it just being the person's own fault if something bad happens. Garbage!
how are you going to control the cost of medical equipment(mri or xray machines, etc)??????most xray machine are made in denmark(((((((why does that PROCEEDURE of getting an MRI cost 4k???.......because the MACHINE itself cost 1.4 million dollars.......and the tech that runs it has to make ATLEAST minimum wage......and then the DOCTOR/SPECIALIST has to READ(analyze) the MRI
it can take YEARS before that machine has even paid for itself..and you have the cost of the personnel and the electric to run it, on top of that)))))))
Not sure why you are so angry. Might want to make sure you have medical insurance, you're going to need it with all that stress. Not sure when the last time you paid for an MRI out of pocket.... but we just paid for one out of pocket last month. $400. Not nearly the $4K
Obviously the $100 fee at the urgent care place does not go directly into the doctors pocket. I think you missed the entire premise of my post. I merely mentioned that being a doctor is no longer a lucrative career. I also mentioned that for some strange reason (lobbyists) if a procedure is performed using insurance you see a bill where the insurance company paid $4000 for that MRI where I can get the same MRI for $400 if I pay out of pocket.
You do know insurance companies have agreements with doctors and hospitals right? Doctors hate insurance because of the amount of paperwork it takes to process a claim and they are getting very low reimbursement. Insurance companies show you the bill for that MRI was $4000 so you think you got a good deal. It's marketing. After their kickbacks, contract agreements, fees, etc, the insurance company actually paid that poor doctor less than the $400 I would have paid them out of pocket.
I'm not saying health insurance is bad. It's great. But ya know.... from now on I am only going to carry catastrophic health insurance. Because it's way cheaper (not to mention tax deductible) if you pay for the smaller other items out of pocket. I'll have catastrophic so in the event I get cancer, need surgery or need to be hospitalized I'll be covered after paying a large deductible and $10,000 max out of pocket.
Insurance (car, auto, health, etc) was originally developed to prevent you from losing everything should a catastrophic event happen. It was never meant to be the go to tool if you have a cold, cut or splinter.
Ok, here's my problem with this "logic". Who's business is it besides his, if he gets insurance to cover the "what if's" or not?? Is it really the government's job to FORCE everyone to buy insurance because we MIGHT need it someday?? Are they going to force everyone to buy mittens, gloves, snow shoes and a thick winter coat because we all MIGHT need it someday? Just because some people will for sure need those things because of where they live, doesn't mean that those of us who live in Las Vegas or San Diego need them, even if we might visit Northern Maine someday!
If I want to wear shorts, flip flops and go out in the snow with my hair wet, it's no ones business but my own! And the same applies to health insurance. If I don't want to buy it and use it I shouldn't be forced to or be TAXED because I didn't buy it! It's MY business what I buy to cover myself or my family in cases of emergency, not yours, not the governments, not anyone else's business. Plain and simple!
Because I know had I been uninsured when I was diagnosed with cancer, then YOU would have been paying for it after I filed for bankruptcy. Mind you, I wanted health insurance when I was uninsured, but I was denied coverage because of some mild health issues (mild on their own - turned out they were symptoms of the cancer that no one put together). At 23 years old, I would have had over $250,000 in medical bills to pay just for the cancer itself - to say nothing of the scans and followup required. And guess what, I would not have paid a cent. I have nothing to lose in bankruptcy, in comparison to a lifetime of poverty paying for medical care.
I don't say that with pride, just the truth. And that's what many do when they have serious health problems when they are uninsured.
My best friend's niece who has been healthy all her life is now laying in ICU having just had surgery for stage 3 pancreatic cancer. She is only 46. Next up will be radiation and chemo. How could anyone but the very wealthy pay for what this kind of illness will cost? Three hundred a month is like a drop in the bucket by comparison. Also, this person was not a smoker or drinker. This is why I cannot stomach what we've been hearing this election cycle about it just being the person's own fault if something bad happens. Garbage!
Yup - stage IV lymphoma at 23 here. The only thing I could have done to prevent it is avoiding coming in contact with someone with mono in elementary school. How dare I want to live when I put myself at risk! I should also note that there is absolutely no history of cancer in my family. One great aunt had colon cancer in her 80s, another half-great aunt had cervical cancer in her 50s. If I was to put money on it, I would never have been someone to get cancer EVER, much less at 23.
Many states now have policies you can purchase that cover preexisting conditions at a pretty reasonable rate. To qualify you must be uninsured for 6 months OR be denied health insurance.
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I should also note that there is absolutely no history of cancer in my family. One great aunt had colon cancer in her 80s, another half-great aunt had cervical cancer in her 50s. If I was to put money on it, I would never have been someone to get cancer EVER, much less at 23.
