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You're right. Those animals should evolve a bit and learn to rig the stock market and speculate on housing foreclosures, just like "real men" do. Now that's work!! --lol
Peace,
brian
Whether a guy digs ditches or manages spreasheets, they're both working.
What you fail to recognize is that like in any business, there are people on Wall Street who are better than others, see opportunities, take risks and are rewarded for such. But, when they make the wrong decision, they are punished as well.
First off, you do need to be more clear because you're spouting generalities that any bozo can pick up from listening to CNN or late night personalities.
The fact that our country is in economic decline isn't necessarily because of corporate greed. How about we settle for greed by powerful individuals? That would include politicians making back room deals for campaign dollars. Can we agree on that? It's also because of bad economic decisions by our elected officials. Would it be fair to say we can agree on that also? I too own a small business (do you always make assumptions?) and I'm not blaming other more successful businesses for the demise of or economy. I also pay my fair share of taxes. And as a small business owner, you should see that if Obama is re-elected, that fair share is going to be more. Go stand on the sidewalk and protest that and see where it gets you. If you paid attention to what goes on around you, you'd see that many businesses do help their communities by donating and such. What more do you want? Requirements for a specific percentage? I don't want Uncle Sam to have that much power! Besides, whenever regulation comes into play, most often it's the consumer that ends up paying for it. What you protest is a very small percentage of businesses. They get antiquated subsidies and bailouts. Why? Do you think it's because they can pad politicians pockets? So is it just the big greedy corporations that are at fault here?
Our system works, so long as we have participants. That means take and active role. What we are experiencing is a result of years of complacency by US citizens. I'm sure you've seen the shameful videos of people that don't even know the President's or Vice President's name. What I'd like you to start seeing is that WE are the government that elect spokespeople but that isn't what is happening anymore. We don't necessarily need to plead our case as you do it, we just need to make sure all the facts are being presented to the people and making it socially "cool" if you will, to be informed. Further, I'd like to regulate politicians. I'd like to make it a requirement that they show their voting records on every campaign piece. I just really believe that sidewalk protesting is as antiquated as the 8-track tape. Rally's to initiate a movement, I can see but not the type of protesting done by Occupy.
There is such a division in this country because we cannot come together on ideas and the folks we put in leadership (that shouldn't be there) love it because it causes distraction and they continue on with the back room deals and sneaky agendas. As far as the brutality, that's what happens when one mob gets out of control. It can happen in a second and once one or two get out of control, you're tagged as volatile. You obviously don't understand what it's like to be on the other end of the spectrum so I won't even bother arguing this point with you, except to say that when you protest you should understand that these things can happen.
I'm bitterly aware of the leftist media's influence on our culture. Why aren't you protesting them? They are a good part of the problem too. Obviously your Movement miscalculated their influence because they dropped Occupy like the plague after they more often than not became a destructive mob that were costing financially drained cities money.
I'll give you your closing statement but I will say, those movements you talk about were ORGANIZED, they had a LEADER, most of them were PEACEFUL, and they had a single agenda. They also integrated into the political process. Look at the Tea Party, they got the attention of their political leaders and Occupy didn't. Oh wait...Obama loved it because it furthered his agenda to raise taxes on those greedy rich people, which will hit small businesses most. Surely you know this being a small business person. The difference; big businesses have deep pockets and strange bed fellows so they'll walk out unscathed because of some loophole that they can afford to jump through. All while the sneaky politician takes credit for "getting those rich people" when in fact they're draining the middle class. Meanwhile, the small businesses quit hiring because they're paying more taxes & less money is coming through the door. Less people are spending because they aren't working. See the cycle?
My goal isn't to have a slap down fest with you because we can go back and forth until the cows come home. I really believe that you're passion is for a better America. And I also believe that our ideals aren't that far off from one another. I just happen to believe that you're not encompassing the full picture. IMO, they need to carry through to the root causes not the symptoms. And unless and until folks like you and folks like me can listen to each other civilly and find some common ground, we will continue to be ferociously divided.
First of all, thanks for your response. And in response to the beginning of your post, I was responding to some posters who ridicule the protesters as worthless, lazy, vile, etc.
I agree with a lot of what you mentioned in the 1st paragraph. A lot of our situation is the fault of politicians. And greedy individuals who's name we will not mention. Its the fault of the media. Its the fault of the American people. There's lots of people at fault and lots of factors that led to our current economic situation. I understand that its not simply a black and white issue which is why I started this thread. To start a discussion.
If you think about the sole purpose of a protest it is to raise public awareness. Protest in and of themselves do not write bills, automatically deposit funds from rich to poor, or pay off student loans. BUT, they do raise public awareness and start a discussion of what is being protested.
In that sense, Occupy has been very effective in bringing about change. Everybody was talking about the issues they were protesting last fall. If it had not been for them we could have been even farther behind on the discussion and ultimately the result of those discussions which I truly believe will lead to changes in policy and possibly a "more aware" America.
Why do we work? What is "fair" compensation? How much profit goes to Wall Street vs. Employees? What is the role of Wall Street? Are we adequately taking care of our poor? Etc, etc, etc.
We need Occupy back because we need to continue the discussion. We need to publicly remind the politicians, investment industry, and corporate execs that they are not above the American people. They need to be reminded that there is still a human element that can even override money and power.
No, I was a business/managment major undergrad (Big 10 school) and MBA business management at one of the most recognized universities in the world. So, either way, I have a little idea about finance, moreso at least than some wannbe hippie complaining about Wall Street crooks.
Your making assumptions.
I was a Finance major at a top school as well. Worked briefly on Wall Street before going back the entrepreneur route to start my own operation. I grew up meat packing and have worked hard all of my life. I help my family, help others, and would like to consider myself an upstanding citizen. If you met me in person and had not previously known about my beliefs on this particular issue you'd probably think I was a great guy.
Just because I support Occupy does not mean I am some wanna be hippie.
I was a Finance major at a top school as well. Worked briefly on Wall Street before going back the entrepreneur route to start my own operation. I grew up meat packing and have worked hard all of my life. I help my family, help others, and would like to consider myself an upstanding citizen. If you met me in person and had not previously known about my beliefs on this particular issue you'd probably think I was a great guy.
Just because I support Occupy does not mean I am some wanna be hippie.
I'm sure if you and I met in person, we could sit down, have a beer and a few laughs. In all honesty, I think some of OWS crowd had legitimate arguments. Unfortunately for them, their mission was hijacked by more radical members and that's what makes the news and therefore, that's going to be the general perception of the movement.
Me, I'm just not the type to take to the streets. I control what I can control and let the rest take care of itself. I work hard so my family can have nice things, live in a nice has and generally not be in want for anything. Part of that is because my investments have done well because Wall Street works in my favor. (of course, I've also lost a lot of money in the market as well but that's the risk I'm willing to take).
I'm sure if you and I met in person, we could sit down, have a beer and a few laughs. In all honesty, I think some of OWS crowd had legitimate arguments. Unfortunately for them, their mission was hijacked by more radical members and that's what makes the news and therefore, that's going to be the general perception of the movement.
Me, I'm just not the type to take to the streets. I control what I can control and let the rest take care of itself. I work hard so my family can have nice things, live in a nice has and generally not be in want for anything. Part of that is because my investments have done well because Wall Street works in my favor. (of course, I've also lost a lot of money in the market as well but that's the risk I'm willing to take).
I've talked to some of the protesters and even they admitted that it was a mistake to let anyone be part of the movement. The guy I spoke to said it was brought up in many discussions and eventually (in DC at least) the consensus was to not keep people from joining. It came back to bite them.
I do however feel like the media ultimately led to their demise. The media plays whatever it wants. If it wants to demonize a group, it will. The media could've chosen to focus on all of the positive things that the movement produced. There is still a segment of the group that helps families and individuals who are facing foreclosures. During the protest there were many factions that fed the homeless. There were several positive things about the movement that never were reported on.
To be perfectly honest, if your comfortable, your more than likely not going to sympathize with Occupy. Why should you? Your way of life is comfortable and you probably worked hard to get it that way. But, I would plead to those people to be supportive of those who are simply trying to improve their conditions... or those who are less fortunate.
I think most people just don't like the image of Occupy. Its not that their against some of their messages, just all of the negativity associated with the movement.
Occupy was wierd (and I say this as someone who was involved in the movement and had visited a bunch of different camps).
What I think happened was that this was going to be just some NYC street demo thing organized by anachists and other activist types (I wouldnt call them "professional activistis", but people who are into protest and dissent as a lifestyle).
They co-opped that Adbusters ad concept (Adubusters does these notional "campaigns' quite a bit, but they are really just fictions that appear in Adbusters as an excuse for doing graphics and copy since Adubusters is about subverting adverstising)..
But what they probably didnt figure was that this would take off nationally the way it did. That was the big suprise with Occupy...that it was springing up all over the place.
The concept or the idea just caught the right mood with a certain segement of the left.
But what happened in the end is that these camps became nothing more than politicized homeless shantytowns, and the movement became more radical and anarchist (which it was at the beginning anyway) and hence a lot more kooky.
Like some of that rhetoric..."We're building a new society in Zucotti Park"? Really? I don't think so. ...this was the anarchist rap on what was going on..buildint this new society in the shell of the old. Just a big fantasy.
Then came the tendancy toward acting-out, which we saw in the Occupy Oakland violence....the "black bloc tacitics" mimicing the Weathermen of yore.
And ulitmatly this camping out thing needed to end. It was a great street theatre and could have been used to bring people in, but it was not sustainable....but these Occupys got hung up in this..the indefinite nature of this camping thing....
Just an odd moment in US political history (actually more in US cultural history since there was no real political fallout).
Occupy was wierd (and I say this as someone who was involved in the movement and had visited a bunch of different camps).
What I think happened was that this was going to be just some NYC street demo thing organized by anachists and other activist types (I wouldnt call them "professional activistis", but people who are into protest and dissent as a lifestyle).
They co-opped that Adbusters ad concept (Adubusters does these notional "campaigns' quite a bit, but they are really just fictions that appear in Adbusters as an excuse for doing graphics and copy since Adubusters is about subverting adverstising)..
But what they probably didnt figure was that this would take off nationally the way it did. That was the big suprise with Occupy...that it was springing up all over the place.
The concept or the idea just caught the right mood with a certain segement of the left.
But what happened in the end is that these camps became nothing more than politicized homeless shantytowns, and the movement became more radical and anarchist (which it was at the beginning anyway) and hence a lot more kooky.
Like some of that rhetoric..."We're building a new society in Zucotti Park"? Really? I don't think so. ...this was the anarchist rap on what was going on..buildint this new society in the shell of the old. Just a big fantasy.
Then came the tendancy toward acting-out, which we saw in the Occupy Oakland violence....the "black bloc tacitics" mimicing the Weathermen of yore.
And ulitmatly this camping out thing needed to end. It was a great street theatre and could have been used to bring people in, but it was not sustainable....but these Occupys got hung up in this..the indefinite nature of this camping thing....
Just an odd moment in US political history (actually more in US cultural history since there was no real political fallout).
It seems like what you are describing is a lot of fringe groups and people don't fit into the current society. Upon that I would agree with you. Those people are obviously going to seek change 1st, but the movement also attracted many blue collar workers, teachers, politicians, and veterans. There were multiple veterans injured from police brutality during the protest. That means that there had to have been a pretty big presence.
The police did a good job of intimidating and beating the protesters away. Or at least the ones who already had comfortable lives in the current society. If your making 50k a year you don't want to lose it all because of some protest. The police knowing this did what they could to intimidate Americans from protesting. I wouldn't even be surprised if the staged some events to turn the tide on the movement.
It seems like what you are describing is a lot of fringe groups and people don't fit into the current society. Upon that I would agree with you. Those people are obviously going to seek change 1st, but the movement also attracted many blue collar workers, teachers, politicians, and veterans. There were multiple veterans injured from police brutality during the protest. That means that there had to have been a pretty big presence.
The police did a good job of intimidating and beating the protesters away. Or at least the ones who already had comfortable lives in the current society. If your making 50k a year you don't want to lose it all because of some protest. The police knowing this did what they could to intimidate Americans from protesting. I wouldn't even be surprised if the staged some events to turn the tide on the movement.
We need Occupy back.
Yep,....the black helicopters were overhead at most of the Occupy locations. Infiltrators defecated on the police car, beat the drums, spread the trash, and fought with the police because the Occupiers refused to break any laws.
Yep,....the black helicopters were overhead at most of the Occupy locations. Infiltrators defecated on the police car, beat the drums, spread the trash, and fought with the police because the Occupiers refused to break any laws.
You must be new to America if you don't think the police are above corruption.
On a personal level, I know of a protester who had charges trumped up on him and who was held for over a month at Rykers before his trial. NDAA was struck down during his jail time.
He was charged with felony assualt on an officer. Video evidence of the incident shows that he was peaceful through the whole process.
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