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But federal involvement in people's sex lives and child birth will work?
How about the plethora of studies which show that abstinence-only education fails miserably?
Just look at Sarah Palin...who is supposedly a good mother...she promoted abstinence-only education in her household and her unwed teenaged daughter had a baby. If she wasn't a millionaire, it would be a significant problem and would cause her entire life to be derailed.
But you don't care, because a fetus is precious and living, breathing humans don't matter.
Whats interesting is the fact that people just do not seem to understand that one cannot legislate morality.
Prohibition comes to mind........that turned out really well, didnt it?
"Eleven years ago while giving an anesthetic for a ruptured ectopic pregnancy (at 8 weeks gestation), I was handed what I believe was the smallest living human ever seen. The embryonic sac was intact and transparent. Within the sac was a tiny human male swimming extremely vigorously in the amniotic fluid, while attached to the wall by the umbilical cord. This tiny human was perfectly developed, with long, tapering fingers, feet and toes. It was almost transparent, as regards the skin, and the delicate arteries and veins were prominent to the ends of the fingers ... The baby was extremely alive and swam about the sac approximately one time per second, with a natural swimmer's stroke. This tiny human did not look at all like the photos and drawings and models of 'embryos' which I had seen, nor did it look like a few embryos I have been able to observe since then, obviously because this one was alive! When the sac was opened, the tiny human immediately lost his life and took on the appearance of what is accepted as the appearance of an embryo at this stage of life (with blunt extremities etc.)."
Fetal feet at 10 weeks:
Not a real picture...
Also, the actual story is in that part you ever-so-conveniently cut out. When they opened the sac, the fetus immediately died. It was not a viable living being.
First, I'm delighted to learn that you realize all abortions after the 12th week of pregnancy take the life of a human person. Glad to have you on board for that much, 'cause there's lots of other people saying it's not a human person until "viability" (22-24 weeks), or until the birth process begins, or until the birth process ends, or until the mother subjectively "feels" it's a human person. Maybe you can help persuade some of these misguided souls.
Where did I say that?? Most abortions take place before the 12th week of pregnancy - fetuses do not attain 'personhood' until they are capable of sentience, which occurs much later in pregnancy.
Quote:
As for when life begins, kindly inform me as to the scientific difference between a 12 week old fetus and an 11 week old fetus that makes the former human and the later non-human. Can you do that?
No, of course you can't. There is a complete human being present at conception - scientifically speaking. All the DNA is present. The rest is just development, the same kind of development that continues for years outside the womb.
Well, yes, I kind of can. From Scientific American:
Quote:
But when does the magical journey of consciousness begin? Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation. Roughly two months later synchrony of the electroencephalographic (EEG) rhythm across both cortical hemispheres signals the onset of global neuronal integration. Thus, many of the circuit elements necessary for consciousness are in place by the third trimester. By this time, preterm infants can survive outside the womb under proper medical care. When Does Consciousness Arise in Human Babies?: Scientific American
"Eleven years ago while giving an anesthetic for a ruptured ectopic pregnancy (at 8 weeks gestation), I was handed what I believe was the smallest living human ever seen. The embryonic sac was intact and transparent. Within the sac was a tiny human male swimming extremely vigorously in the amniotic fluid, while attached to the wall by the umbilical cord. This tiny human was perfectly developed, with long, tapering fingers, feet and toes. It was almost transparent, as regards the skin, and the delicate arteries and veins were prominent to the ends of the fingers ... The baby was extremely alive and swam about the sac approximately one time per second, with a natural swimmer's stroke. This tiny human did not look at all like the photos and drawings and models of 'embryos' which I had seen, nor did it look like a few embryos I have been able to observe since then, obviously because this one was alive! When the sac was opened, the tiny human immediately lost his life and took on the appearance of what is accepted as the appearance of an embryo at this stage of life (with blunt extremities etc.)."
Do you see any long, tapering fingers or tiny little feet in the above illustration? Plus, an 8 week embryo lacks all manner of the neural networks that would be required to "swim" in the amniotic fluid.
You can continue to post nonsense, but don't expect anyone to believe it.... Geez...
You seem to be saying that the world would be a better place if your wonderful, sensitive, brilliant boyfriend had been aborted. I suppose you're entitled to your opinion. Have you asked him about his?
I'm sorry about the abuse he suffered, but I don't understand why you expect pro-lifers alone to take responsibility for born children without families. Seems to me that children without families are everyone's burden. You want to believe that abortion solves the problem, but in fact abortion just adds evil to evil, increasing society's callousness and indifference to children in general.
Oh, I was hoping you would say that.
My boyfriend was the son of Catholic high school sweethearts. They got married shortly after they discovered that his mother was pregnant - she was 16, his dad was 18. They went on to have 2 more children in quick succession. The problem was, that was not the life she wanted. She felt pressured into it by her family and would have preferred to put my boyfriend up for adoption (he would have been a good candidate). She developed Munchausens and would physically abuse my boyfriend in order to get attention. Eventually, she burned him so badly that he still bares the scars covering his entire left arm. She killed herself after the kids were taken away. His dad ended up abusing drugs so the kids stayed in the foster care system, and were quickly split up. He didn't see his sisters for years. His dad cleaned up when my boyfriend was around 10, but years of serious drug use took their toll and he died of a heart attack when taking care of my boyfriend. He was the one who found his father's body.
Good Catholic family.
My boyfriend is a genius - photographic memory, incredible wit, brilliant musician. But because he never had love, guidance, or proper care, he has failed to really take advantage of his numerous talents. At some point, that at least partially falls on him. However, had he grown up with support, I have no doubt he would have been the next inventor of Google or Facebook and have no time to gallivant with the likes of me. :P
Another anecdote - my boyfriend's best friend is someone he met in the foster care system. The best friend was born to a married couple with 4 children already. He was born with cerebral palsy. Even with the financial help available, his family was not able to adaquately take care of him AND their 4 older children, so they put him up for adoption. Unfortunately, their dream that he would find one of those supposed multitudes of families waiting to adopt a child never came true. Instead, he was sent to foster care where he never *really* was able to get the services he needed. He's able to live independently, but although he is very intelligent, he has never held a job. He never got the work ethic, focus, or drive that a family could have helped provide.
I tell you this to point out that not all unwanted children started out that way. And some of the most pro-choice people I know are people who HAVE adopted, fostered, or were adopted or fostered themselves (my boyfriend and his best friend included).
My point is that if you want to bring millions of children into the world, you need to have a solid plan of how to take care of them. As long as there are children in the foster care system today who are available to adopt but are not, or who are living in group homes rather than with families, then we are failing ALL children, and we certainly have no place encouraging more children come into the world. ALL of society is responsible for children - but pro-lifers make it their goal to make it even more difficult for all of the children in this country to have access to a family, love, care, and guidance.
Last edited by charolastra00; 10-25-2012 at 07:21 PM..
There would be lots of facts involved. Schoolchildren would know all about fetal development, would view ultrasounds of real babies at different stages, would fully understand the humanity of the unborn through sound moral and philosophical reasoning (yes, reason can arrive at facts), and would be educated about post-abortion emotional and physical trauma. They would also be educated about the social consequences of abortion, such as the demographic meltdown we are now experiencing in the West, which is really the driving force behind our economic problems.
And many more facts besides.
LMAO!
If abortion was illegal in this country we would be living in an economic utopia!
Oh wait. Wasn't abortion illegal during the Great Depression?
Almost every smoker I know who quit, did so because of the outrageously high taxes on cigarettes.....not because they saw a billboard on the side of the road or a commercial on TV.
For your idea to work.......you would have to put a high tax on sex. Good luck with THAT. LMAO
Under the guise of a President "guiding" the populace. Be the President pro-choice or pro-life we (thankfully) have a Constitution that ensures that we are citizens of the country, not subjects of the Chief Executive.
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Wasn't abortion illegal during the Great Depression? 
