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Old 10-28-2012, 12:45 AM
 
23,655 posts, read 17,467,969 times
Reputation: 7471

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Obama is more of a pro abortion president than we have ever had. He gets a ton of money from planned parenthood who is the biggest provider of abortions in our country than any other organization. Obama even supported a born alive bill that would allow babies that are born alive from botched abortions to be left to die alone.

The bishops are rightly concerned by the election this time. Listen to your spiritual advisers, the bishops, and really think this year before you vote.

Obama also wants to interfere with religious liberty and freedom with the HHS mandate. Please go to the links I provided to get informed. I see you have been going to a liberal parish and this is new to you. It's a good thing you got that letter.

 
Old 10-28-2012, 12:48 AM
 
1,841 posts, read 3,168,365 times
Reputation: 2512
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
I'm a Catholic. Was born a Catholic. I'm also a Democrat and always will be. I got a letter from my Bishop telling me that voting no on the gay marriage amendment will put my soul in danger. It also stated that voting for candidates that support evil ideas like abortion and gay marriage also puts my soul in danger.

Are there any other Catholic Democrats struggling with this out there? In all my years, I have never had it spelled out so clearly by the church as this letter.
Directed towards the OP…

I am catholic, raised this way since I was able to “read” yes, bible stories, catechism.. The works, attending church every Sunday.

My mother? Mexican Catholic, she cleaned the church for “fun” after services 7 days a week, very religious.
My father? Catholic although he could care less.lol

All of our children ( My twin sisters and mine) have had and are getting a Parochial education..
Baptized, catechism and some that still need to ( My baby niece).

When the prop 8 came out? My son was attending Parochial school, and he saw “against” prop 8 signs everywhere with the statement that said “You cannot be catholic and for prop 8”

My son asked me “Mommy is auntie vero bad?” Vero ( A very old friend of mine since school) had come out of the closet when we were 29 and was “married” not legally but through a private ceremony not acknowledged by the state to her partner shortly before her partner passed on of breast cancer.

I stated “ No, Auntie Vero had a deep love for her wife and they have loved deeper than most couples I have seen” “You cannot help who you love”

My mother has a first cousin that is gay, my mother has stated as deeply religious as she is “I believe in knowing my cousin and how he is and how loving and pure he was as a child, that god does not make mistakes”

I took that to heart since I loved my second cousin to bits, he was not confused, twisted, a pervert!
He as a matter of fact was one of the most accepting people I knew, he played with me and my sister, made our Barbie doll dresses, combed our hair and so forth.

I believe that god does not make mistakes , he makes people exactly like they should be made, this was my perception.
Some of my closest friends have turned out to be gay or lesbian , this does not make them any less god’s children.
 
Old 10-28-2012, 12:49 AM
 
23,655 posts, read 17,467,969 times
Reputation: 7471
Religious Liberties and Religious Freedom


There has been 40 days of prayer and novenas for this election to elect those who are for religious freedom.
 
Old 10-28-2012, 01:21 AM
 
1,841 posts, read 3,168,365 times
Reputation: 2512
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Of course He does but He doesn't always love what we do. That is why we have the ten commandants in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Of course He does but He doesn't always love what we do. That is why we have the ten commandants in the first place.

“Of course he does but he does not always love what we do?”
And then a jump to the ten commandments?

Let us start with number 3..One which I am positive a lot of us have done..
So if we do this? We cannot go to heaven?

4. Keep the Sabbath day holy? So those of us that have to work On Sunday will perish in purgatory?

5. Honor thy father and thy mother? Wow..so those of us that have talked back, treated our parents badly at one point or another? Those of us whom have placed our folks in old folks home instead of caring for them and cherishing them will perish as well?

6. THOU SHALL NOT KILL?
THIS IS THE HEAVY, THE ONE I THINK YOU ARE REFERRING TO?
So let me get this straight…
One can be on Death Row or incarcerated for life because of taking a life viciously? Meaning Torturing, raping, mutilating and then murdering another human being and yet when death is creeping in? They are allowed a priest that can absolve them of their sins and they get a free pass to heaven? Based on absolution?
Or even better? They can become “Born again” and devote their lives allegedly to christ in words alone sometimes and they could have committed heinous crimes but because they are born again they are absolved of their crimes? RIGHT…..


7. Thou should not commit adultery? Lol..laughable..if this were true? Then a lot of people would be exempt..
Let us add to the list by naming pastors that have committed adultery..

What Are the Consequences When a Pastor Commits Adultery? | eHow.com

Acts 17:11 Dialog: A Pastor Taken In Adultery

Hmmmm

8. Thou shall not steal? Again falls under number 6.

9. Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor..
Again a lot of us would be heading down south…

10. Thou shall not covet…that speaks for itself…
So as you can see the ten commandments are made up of sense and common at that and yet I am sure each and every one has been guilty of at least one..
If this is a guide and it was written for a reason then we are screwed if taken in the literal sense..

Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Obama is more of a pro abortion president than we have ever had. He gets a ton of money from planned parenthood who is the biggest provider of abortions in our country than any other organization. Obama even supported a born alive bill that would allow babies that are born alive from botched abortions to be left to die alone.

The bishops are rightly concerned by the election this time. Listen to your spiritual advisers, the bishops, and really think this year before you vote.

Obama also wants to interfere with religious liberty and freedom with the HHS mandate. Please go to the links I provided to get informed. I see you have been going to a liberal parish and this is new to you. It's a good thing you got that letter.
Before you state things like this you should post statistics…

PP. Does do abortions but they do early termination and provide the “abortion pill” which is administered at 7 weeks no later than 11.
Other abortions are referred out to PRIVATE OB/GYN’S that partake in these procedures…so NO PP does not do these..
Second as my CATHOLIC mother stated “There are those so jaded they do not actually do their HW” PP provides Birth control, STD care, birth planning should a mother choose to keep her child.
Mammograms, annual paps and early cancer detection..shame on you..
Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle144 View Post
Religious Liberties and Religious Freedom


There has been 40 days of prayer and novenas for this election to elect those who are for religious freedom.
propaganda...Religious freedom? Everyone has it..However when trying to interfere with the civil rights of others? Religion has no right.
Everyone has the right to believe in whatever they choose but when they attempt to make this the doctrine that ALL should abide by? And attempt to shove it down the throats of others? WRONG..
 
Old 10-28-2012, 01:58 AM
 
23,655 posts, read 17,467,969 times
Reputation: 7471
Either you are a devout Catholic or you are not. Ever hear of cafeteria Catholics. Just look at Bidden, Pelosi and Sibelius. Some can bend their conscience to allow for anything and some want to follow the truth of their religion. We all have to chose. We all need guidance like the bishop's letter.
 
Old 10-28-2012, 02:42 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,956,059 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
So. Let me get this straight. Gay marriage & abortion are non-negotiables, but ending food aid to impoverished pregnant women and infants is totally doable, in good conscience, and not at all a non-negotiable moral issue...right
Perhaps you could go into more detail about the particular issue that you addressing - and I might be able to answer your question.

Don't try to tell me that you weren't asking me - this is a public forum - and anyone can respond to a post - as long as the mods permit such dialogue.

So - what are you trying to say with the food aid issue?
 
Old 10-28-2012, 03:03 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,095 posts, read 25,956,059 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr74 View Post
“Of course he does but he does not always love what we do?”
And then a jump to the ten commandments?

Let us start with number 3..One which I am positive a lot of us have done..
So if we do this? We cannot go to heaven?

4. Keep the Sabbath day holy? So those of us that have to work On Sunday will perish in purgatory?

5. Honor thy father and thy mother? Wow..so those of us that have talked back, treated our parents badly at one point or another? Those of us whom have placed our folks in old folks home instead of caring for them and cherishing them will perish as well?

6. THOU SHALL NOT KILL?
THIS IS THE HEAVY, THE ONE I THINK YOU ARE REFERRING TO?
So let me get this straight…
One can be on Death Row or incarcerated for life because of taking a life viciously? Meaning Torturing, raping, mutilating and then murdering another human being and yet when death is creeping in? They are allowed a priest that can absolve them of their sins and they get a free pass to heaven? Based on absolution?
Or even better? They can become “Born again” and devote their lives allegedly to christ in words alone sometimes and they could have committed heinous crimes but because they are born again they are absolved of their crimes? RIGHT…..


7. Thou should not commit adultery? Lol..laughable..if this were true? Then a lot of people would be exempt..
Let us add to the list by naming pastors that have committed adultery..

What Are the Consequences When a Pastor Commits Adultery? | eHow.com

Acts 17:11 Dialog: A Pastor Taken In Adultery

Hmmmm

8. Thou shall not steal? Again falls under number 6.

9. Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor..
Again a lot of us would be heading down south…

10. Thou shall not covet…that speaks for itself…
So as you can see the ten commandments are made up of sense and common at that and yet I am sure each and every one has been guilty of at least one..
If this is a guide and it was written for a reason then we are screwed if taken in the literal sense..
Yes - we are all "screwed" and the fact that you don't seem to understand that is proof that the Catholic Church has failed you.

Their "teaching" is a major reason why - though I was baptized a Catholic as a child - I no longer am one.

Have you not read the scripture where it states that "no one is righteous, not one, ALL have failed and fallen short of the glory of God".

The law was given so that we could be made aware of our failings and all that try to live by the law will die by the law. All that live by faith in the LORD, Jesus - who died for our sin on the cross and was ressurected on the third day - will have eternal life.

We are worthy of death because of our sin - and even without the law - we have been given a consience so that no one is without excuse(everything that I am saying is based on a direct quote from the Bible - I would give chapter and verse, but certain people on this forum tend to not like that - but I remind them that this thread began with a religiously based question).

So we have the idea that none can live a righteous life through adherence to the law - the law is given so that we can know that we have not met its standards and understand that we need a savior - who could redeem our sins. This is GOOD NEWS - that those who are in Christ have no condemnation attached to them - but are justified through faith.

The Catholic Church does not teach this. I am descended from Irish people for goodness sake! But I have learned that the Catholic reliance on a priest for doctrine and salvation - is wrong. One is justified by their confession of faith in Jesus Christ - nothing more or less.

I pray that you come to understand this - all one must do is confess their sin and acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior - the Holy Spirit will guide you then in repentance of your sin - and you will have life - abundantly.

My prayer is for all who do not know the LORD.

Amen.
 
Old 10-28-2012, 03:11 AM
 
12,268 posts, read 6,440,885 times
Reputation: 9418
It`s a shame that this is what Catholicism is all about today. Punishing gays and pregnant teenagers.
 
Old 10-28-2012, 03:18 AM
 
83 posts, read 79,386 times
Reputation: 156
Here is why this priest is making a dreadful mistake.

I don't want to hate the Catholic church. I don't want to want to tear it down. I don't want to devote my energies to doing everything in my power to tear it down as an institution.

But I do want to do those things to the Republican Party. I hate the (current) Republican party. And with good reason! The Republican party is a coalition, like all political parties, and it caters to the members of its coalition. And certain members of its coalition are the money changers that Christ scourged out of the temple. Certain of its members want to enact policies that would do direct, immediate, non-abstract dreadful harm to many people I love, and to me. Members of the Republican coalition want bad things for me. It is not a coalition that cares about people like me. That is not because it is evil, exactly, but because any coalition is going to include members that do things that exclude other members.

This is where the separation of the church and state comes in.

IF the Catholic church has priests actively erasing that boundary, THEN the Catholic church becomes nothing more than one more compromised corrupt member of a political coalition. They became my enemy. I am forced to want terrible things for them. I am forced to want revocation of their tax exempt status. It suddenly becomes in my interest to vote for the most aggressively antagonistic-to-organized religion politicians I can possibly vote to, and devote energy to Sam Harris-style organizations. Because that's what politics is and does. If you give succor to people who are devoting their energy to hurting me and people I love, then you are my enemy.

Churches can not survive this process, I am convinced, as anything recognizable as religion. That is where that "priest" errs.
 
Old 10-28-2012, 03:20 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,236,422 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
I'm a Catholic. Was born a Catholic. I'm also a Democrat and always will be. I got a letter from my Bishop telling me that voting no on the gay marriage amendment will put my soul in danger. It also stated that voting for candidates that support evil ideas like abortion and gay marriage also puts my soul in danger.

Are there any other Catholic Democrats struggling with this out there? In all my years, I have never had it spelled out so clearly by the church as this letter.
I went to catholic school.
I have numerous friends from then who are both practicing catholics and democrats.

They have no problem with it.
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