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Old 10-28-2012, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,545 posts, read 18,979,545 times
Reputation: 16886

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
Understand what indentured servitude means. They were contracted to work to pay off their transportation to America but they would some day become citizens. Not exactly the same as being torn from your family and sold in the slave market.
Some came as free will. Many came as victums of press gangs who kidnapped victums from the cities or the emptying of work houses directly to the ship. Children were considered desirable, especially if they were around 8 to ten, and were ususally snatched. they had to remain to at least 21 if they managed to survive it. Most didn't. The 'supply' mentods in the 'servant trade' as it was called were as cutthoat as those in the slaver trade. If families discovered their child had been pressed, there was no appeal to get them returned. The Irish were usually rounded up or kidnapped, as they were considered excess population in their own land.

Those who came under free will were frequently lied to and discovered this too late. The use of convicts and press gangs increased when this became known as less were willing to take the chance. Eventually most 'free willers' were those with marketable skills who left with an indenture already signed to a particular master.

This continued after the revolution when convict labor was exported elsewhere, and Australia was founded. An 'order' would be made of a number and type and the pressers would hit the streets, grab likely targets, haul them before a judge where they were charged with someothing, convicted and off to the ship. I believe this even continued after slavery itself was outlawed, especially in regards to the 'excess'.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,018 posts, read 11,330,608 times
Reputation: 8964
The civil war was in fact `The second American Revolution`. It had almost nothing at all to do with slavery and it had everything to do with the trashing of the American constitution and enforcing by war the power of the Central government over the legally elected governments of Sovereign states. Linclon and hsi Generals were the first leaders in modern warfare to practise what we consider today to be war crimes. Killing civilians and destroying their homes and properties. This war was the end of constitutional rule in the country and it has never reverted to what the intent of the founders was in the formation of the union. Lincoln even went as far as to suggest the union was responsible for the formation of the several states. The exact opposite of what the reality really is.

Just think a moment about Linclons Gettysburg address. When you apply his words to the soldiers who fell on the field of battle, it was really only the Southern soldiers to whom the words applied for it was they who were fighting and dieing to protect government, of by and for the people. It was their lands that had been invaded by an unconstitutional dictator who had perverted the entire reason to be for the several sovereign states to be united in the first place.

This was the first move in what become, American Imperialism. Firstly at home with the genocide of the western natives and then on to a worldwide Imperialism that has shaped the world and especially the USA since.

If there had never been a civil war it`s very likely the slaves would have been freed anyway as had already been done in most of the western world without the loss of 600,000 Americans, the destruction of the south, it`s industries and infrastructure and culture. Much of that destruction has never been reversed. The economies of many southern states have never recovered from that war in almost 150 years. The reaction to the war and reconstruction in the south made things far worse for the black people than things would have evolved in any other circumstance.
If their had never been a war between the States and the resulting American Imperialism it is very doubtful that the USA would have ever fought in WW1. Without America`s contribution to the war the Warring Europeans would have had to come to a reasonable settlement and the treaty of Versallies would never have occured. Without that treaty, conditions would never have occured that allowed for the rise of Hitler and the Nazis and there would never have been a WW2.

If only the vision of the founders of the USA had been faithfully followed we would be living in a far different world today.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 23,531,591 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Why dont we celebrate the fact that ancestors of white children in America shed blood to officially end slavery?


Because that was a totally unnecessary war and wasted 800,000 American lives. We should be embarrassed by that useless war.
It did preserve the union - that isn't entirely useless.

On the other hand - maybe allowing the republic to split apart wouldn't have been such a bad thing...
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:36 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 23,531,591 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by joebaldknobber View Post
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh White People.

Three Cheers!
lol
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 23,531,591 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
It was brave Christians who came to the aid of the Jews at the tail end of the holocaust- It was Christians who gave their lives fighting for the rights of human beings every where...It was Christian doctrine that brought about the true enlightenment that freed people from bondage..It was a Christian man - Martin Luther Kings...who reminded white Christians of their duty to be good and not oppress others.

It was not so much "whites" - color had little to do with it- It was those with the Christ like state of mind that brought about progress. People forget that it was the Christian mindset that made America great - it was not the Muslims...During the American revolution there was a war cry "No King but Jesus"- The civil war was a reminder that the empire must be sustained and that a house divided falls...I just wish that bitter blacks would understand- Christians who really understand the doctrine are to be thanked- but they are not.
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Old 10-30-2012, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,097 posts, read 23,531,591 times
Reputation: 6128
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
OK, the issue is that you don't have a single clue of what reality is. I have not seen many OPs on city data that approach ther total stupidity of this one.
There is that whole concept of "limit" in calculus - one can get very, very close - but never quite touch the limit.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:18 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,629 posts, read 26,089,189 times
Reputation: 11366
Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyjohnny38 View Post
while the forebears of their Black and Muslim classmates were busy fighting tooth and nail to keep the institution alive in other parts of the world? If it had have been Muslims and not Europeans who had abolished the slave trade, this would be the focus of much celebration and fanfare. It is only White children who are systematically stripped of their dignity and self-worth and made to loathe their history and their people. Only White children are publicly humiliated in such a way.
Because many shed blood to try to make it continue.
Pretty simple, any high school history book would indicate that in the discussion of the civil war.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Chesterfield,Virginia
4,919 posts, read 4,379,041 times
Reputation: 2650
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
Were white families torn apart and sold in the slave markets? Just asking.
So glad you asked ..

Whites were auctioned on the block with children sold and separated from their parents and wives sold and separated from their husbands. Free Black property owners strutted the streets of northern and southern American cities while White slaves were worked to death in the sugar mills of Barbados and Jamaica and the plantations of Virginia.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:00 PM
 
Location: San Diego
990 posts, read 852,850 times
Reputation: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyjohnny38 View Post
while the forebears of their Black and Muslim classmates were busy fighting tooth and nail to keep the institution alive in other parts of the world? If it had have been Muslims and not Europeans who had abolished the slave trade, this would be the focus of much celebration and fanfare. It is only White children who are systematically stripped of their dignity and self-worth and made to loathe their history and their people. Only White children are publicly humiliated in such a way.


Waaa waaa waaa, the White Man is such a victim...

Oh wait, I forgot, we celebrate the UNION VICTORY all the freaking time. We celebrate the life and actions of Lincoln. We have Veteran's day. We have Memorial day. We have thousands of Civil War reenactments (though it's surprisingly popular with Confederate sympathizers for some reason).

I never once felt that the schoolbooks teaching me were making me out to be anything but proud of the REAL Americans who fought against the South and the troglodytes who occupied that pathetic region.

We constantly talk about how Muslims are terrorists, so I don't get how you white supremacy KKK Stormfront people think that Muslims are somehow on a pedestal.

And seriously, we white people are not humiliated or victimized, stop whining and complaining just because white people don't have the power to subjugate other races anymore.

People who agree with this poster are obviously racist...I'm not directly calling the poster a racist, I'm simply stating that the opinion stated is one that only a true racist could harbor.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:01 PM
 
56,217 posts, read 30,583,661 times
Reputation: 18360
The war was waged ostensibly to keep the union together, not to end slavery.

So no, i'm not about to celebrate that. But i do give thanks to the abolitionists of the era.
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