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Does that mean we should withhold all care, including food and water?
Again, there were medical procedures about which we have not been made aware. Some of those may have been (probably were) life saving. Food + water =/= one millions dollars in 11 weeks.
There are many unknowns re this child's care. How many hospitalizations has she had in her 12 weeks on this earth. What procedures were done? What tests were run? One million dollars in 11 weeks is not the cost for ordinary hospital care.
The living room of their tidy 700-square-foot cottage has been transformed into a nursery with Pearl's cradle wedged in the corner between a pair of couches.
Still, the Browns know that they live in the shadow of Pearl's death. She has seizures on a daily basis, has a weakened immune system and has been back to the hospital at least five times in the past three months.
As I said, let us hope that her parents do not want that for Pearl.
In this case, and in fairness to some members of the medical community involved, there were those who encouraged terminating the pregnancy, and also believed that no interventions should have been employed after birth. It seems that the parents in this case have been the driving force behind these bad decisions. Of course, the parents sense of right and wrong is facilitated by the fact that everyone else will be tagged for the costs of their choices.
With that foundation, I see no reason to assume that the parents will magically begin to make better decisions in the future.
And before you say it ... yes, I see nothing ethically wrong with terminating a pregnancy when the fetus is severely compromised, and has no hope for a reasonable level of life. It's all of the abortions for convenience of healthy babies that I find to be lacking moral justification.
First ... no you are not sorry, and that is all too clear given your dismissive and sarcastic attitude about my poor experiences with it, while insisting how mainstream medicine is above reproach. Secondly, my problem is not what medicine has failed to accomplish, but the direct harm it has inflicted. There's a difference between failure to perform miracles and causing harm. And that's really the basis of my less than stellar opinion of the medical establishment .... the callous disregard for the people whom medicine claims to care about, as so clearly demonstrated by your attitude, which I've found to be quite typical of those who make up that establishment.
That I consider flushing unborn babies down the commode for no other reason than convenience rather inhuman behavior, should be considered obvious evidence that I am not an advocate of infanticide. By the same token, I am also not in favor of milking a little child like a dairy cow for the express purpose of generating a Million Dollars in medical revenue, when there is no hope for any outcome other than maintaining organic existence, which no one could confuse with actually preserving a child's life.
Now that might seem to some, a rather harsh and unfair assumption on my part for suggesting that money may be the driving motive, but only to those who's misconceptions of medicine are a result of propaganda rather than direct personal experience. To those who have made a conscious effort to analyze actions rather than words, and results rather than claims, my suggestion is not just plausible, but most likely.
Amongst the rather chaotic and contradictory behaviors of the medical establishment, it is understandable that so many still trust it's image of benevolence. But for those like myself who have directly witnessed and experienced efforts to terminate a loved one's life prematurely, and against the patient's and family's direct orders, such illusions collapse completely, and an entirely different image becomes exposed to the bright light of reality.
That is not to say that all doctors and members of the medical community are that way. It's more a case of corruption of the system which involves many but certainly not all. And certain disciplines do indeed perform miracles on a daily basis, and that fact cannot be denied. One just needs to realize that a dark side does exist, and it's not really too difficult to determine who is who. One just needs to pay attention.
I see no evidence that the treatment being offered this child is solely for the sake of making money.
You also apparently do not realize that you are accusing doctors of providing futile care for this baby while you are angry at them for not providing what they felt was futile care to your family member.
You still have not said what care Pearl is getting that you believe she should not.
We can now save babies that are born extremely prematurely, but about a quarter of them will have severe neurological impairment. Should we stop trying to save them? Should every premature baby have to be able to breathe on its own and nurse or take a bottle in order to survive? No ventilator, no feeding tube --- just do it or be allowed to die?
I would suggest you read the article on ethics to which I previously gave a link. Though she is severely disabled. Pearl has the right to the level of treatment that in the balance does her the most good with the least harm. If her parents take her to the hospital, the doctors there have to treat her. They cannot turn her away. They can discuss options with the parents and they can decline to provide treatment they feel is going to do more harm than good. I would hope the parents would never want to put her on a ventilator. But the doctors cannot do things that would hasten her death.
And I am truly sorry about your family member. Medicine is not the evil demon you make it out to be.
In this case, and in fairness to some members of the medical community involved, there were those who encouraged terminating the pregnancy, and also believed that no interventions should have been employed after birth. It seems that the parents in this case have been the driving force behind these bad decisions. Of course, the parents sense of right and wrong is facilitated by the fact that everyone else will be tagged for the costs of their choices.
With that foundation, I see no reason to assume that the parents will magically begin to make better decisions in the future.
And before you say it ... yes, I see nothing ethically wrong with terminating a pregnancy when the fetus is severely compromised, and has no hope for a reasonable level of life. It's all of the abortions for convenience of healthy babies that I find to be lacking moral justification.
However, these parents felt it was ethically wrong to terminate the pregnancy.
The issue is that you seem to think something was done right after birth that should not have been. Would you tell me what that is? She did not have to have assistance to breathe. Once she was born, heart beating, breathing, what would you have the doctors do differently?
Does that mean we should withhold all care, including food and water?
The NICU is not needed for just food and water. I've never said those should be denied, please quit trying to imply what has been specifically said to be different.
Hard decisions are going to be " made to not pull the plug " on this lovely baby , just a mere 30 or 40 years ago some cancers were considered un-curable , but today have a 90% to 95% cure rate.
Medical science deserve a go at this condition in order to come up with a solution some time in the near or distant future .
I hope that all the pull the plug on this baby folks aren't too overly frustrated with that....
There is no "cure" for this condition, and there won't be one for decades, if ever. Pearl doesn't have a normal brain. Until science gets to the point where there are treatments to make a brain normal, there will be no cure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds
So what would you purpose the parents, society or government do?
Unlike a lot of people on here, I do not have an answer. I do not think there are any charities that would take on this child's care. There may be some that would provide rides to the hospital, housing for the parents while the child is hospitalized if they can't stay at home, things like that. I don't have a huge issue with Medicaid (Tenncare?) paying for her care. It may cost a lot, but OTOH, her care is still just a small part of the Medicaid budget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseygal4u
A feeding tube isn't as dire as people on here are making it out to be.
She isn't too bad off. The main thing for me is that at least she is breathing on her own.
No, she's not too bad off. She looks good. She seems to be gaining weight; she looks hydrated. And all the care she's getting from her parents is not all THAT different from the care a newborn requires anyway. I would refer people back to brightdoglover's post early in the thread about her friend with a disabled child. These babies grow physically. They still require as much care as an infant.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 11-02-2012 at 07:53 PM..
There is no "cure" for this condition, and there won't be one for decades, if ever. Pearl doesn't have a normal brain. Until science gets to the point where there are treatments to make a brain normal, there will be no cure.
Unlike a lot of people on here, I do not have an answer. I do not think there are any charities that would take on this child's care. There may be some that would provide rides to the hospital, housing for the parents while the child is hospitalized if they can't stay at home, things like that. I don't have a huge issue with Medicaid (Tenncare?) paying for her care. It may cost a lot, but OTOH, her care is still just a small part of the Medicaid budget.
No, she's not too bad off. She looks good. She seems to be gaining weight; she looks hydrated. And all the care she's getting from her parents is not all THAT different from the care a newborn requires anyway. I would refer people back to brightdoglover's post early in the thread about her friend with a disabled child. These babies grow physically. They still require as much care as an infant.
Then we are back at the beginning.......how do we as a society prevent people from bringing children like this into the world or what do we do when the children are 3-4 months old and the parents discover the child/children have birth defect. As in my best friend's case, she had twins (autism) and they knew nothing for 3 1/2 months and things began to be seen in the children, this was 21 years ago.
They've needed special school care, bus rides,after school care, provider to babysit 3 times a week for 4 hours, all at taxpayers expense. They couldn't get these things if the government wasn't providing them, the government has created the mentality of don't take care of your own, we will help and here is how.........not sure what her and her husband would have done without all this, because they both came from poor families and families that refused to deal with the girls. On top of this she suffered from a brain tumor, she died when the girls were 12. During her life, her husband was limited to working a 9-5 job, mostly part-time, due to all the care all three of the people needed in the family. He had to be available for doctor appointments and anything else that came up, he also couldn't work over the alloted time or would be cut off from all care.
Besides offing the infants, I'm not sure of the answer.......maybe, if we were not so giving to rebels in the ME we'd have more money at home to deal with our truly poor people. People who are of working status, are the ones sucking off of the American people and the system, not babies like this.
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