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Your argument is archaic as I already addressed what if the condom broke so no it isn't fair.
so when a woman who uses birth control and it fails, its fair to the man that he be absolved of not being responsible?
Again, why is the ONUS on the woman? The man is as responsible as the woman if it results in pregnancy.
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No the man has every right to opt out if she gives birth.
No he doesn't. He helped create that child, he's now responsible for it. 50% responsible for it. Until that child is 18 years of age. That means he has to help pay for clothes, doctor's visits, vaccinations, medical treatments, urgent care, dentists appointments, eye doctor appointments, school supplies, tuition contribution, life insurance, and all the slew of other responsibilities that come with fathering a child.
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The woman has every right to having the sole choice when it comes to the fate of the fetus.
Until that fetus is born, she has SOLE choice over her own body. No man gets to decide what she can or can't do with her body.
That is tantamount to slavery. News: We outlawed slavery 150 years ago.
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The man also has the right to make it known to the woman whether he intends to help support the child if it's his and she carries it to term in order for her to know beforehand to help make the decision.
doesn't matter if he intends to or not. if he doesn't, that's why we have the courts decide.
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If the man officially declares that he won't then she can't go after him if chooses to give birth because she had prior knowledge of his choice.
what you fail to understand is that would make any bachelor single man say "i'm never going to be responsible", have unprotected sex, get 100 women pregnant, and say "nope, I'm not paying for any of those children"
that's why we have courts that quickly put the kibash on these types of thinking. doesn't matter what he declares. He is 50% responsible for that child.
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The family court system is flawed and archaic and a laughing stock around the world.
It's the same family court that got my cousin to seek back child support and upped his payments for future support, from her dead beat ex-husband who left her when he found out that she was going to have twins.
Its the same family court that removed my next door neighbor's kids from their abusive father
so when a woman who uses birth control and it fails, its fair to the man that he be absolved of not being responsible?
Again, why is the ONUS on the woman? The man is as responsible as the woman if it results in pregnancy.
No he doesn't. He helped create that child, he's now responsible for it. 50% responsible for it. Until that child is 18 years of age. That means he has to help pay for clothes, doctor's visits, vaccinations, medical treatments, urgent care, dentists appointments, eye doctor appointments, school supplies, tuition contribution, life insurance, and all the slew of other responsibilities that come with fathering a child.
Until that fetus is born, she has SOLE choice over her own body. No man gets to decide what she can or can't do with her body.
That is tantamount to slavery. News: We outlawed slavery 150 years ago.
doesn't matter if he intends to or not. if he doesn't, that's why we have the courts decide.
what you fail to understand is that would make any bachelor single man say "i'm never going to be responsible", have unprotected sex, get 100 women pregnant, and say "nope, I'm not paying for any of those children"
that's why we have courts that quickly put the kibash on these types of thinking. doesn't matter what he declares. He is 50% responsible for that child.
It's the same family court that got my cousin to seek back child support and upped his payments for future support, from her dead beat ex-husband who left her when he found out that she was going to have twins.
Its the same family court that removed my next door neighbor's kids from their abusive father
Your argument fails because the woman doesn't have to give birth as she can abort and not put herself in such a strained situation. Who cares if he helped create it, it would have never existed if she said I'm aborting it. The fact that the courts disregard everything and make the man literally have to fork up to 75% of his total income is why the court system is screwed up and a laughing stock. I don't care what your cousin got because she chose to carry it to term. It's not right because the man literally has to wait for a decision from her then she has her hand in his back pocket.
Your cousin's ex-husband might as well be forced to pay your cousin for the rest of his life. If we aren't going to be fair then don't be unfair half-heartedly. She has sole control of the fetus fate so he gets a choice in the fetus' involvement. Slavery was reformed. If you really think the system can't be twisted than you are truly ignorant.
Your argument fails because the woman doesn't have to give birth as she can abort and not put herself in such a strained situation.
Yes its called having an abortion, of her choice, without any man telling her otherwise.
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Who cares if he helped create it, it would have never existed if she said I'm aborting it.
Yet, there are many women who choose not to have an abortion. Still doesn't absolve the man of responsibility. 50% he is responsible for the child.
If he didn't want to have a child, then he should have put a sock on that joystick or SAID "No". But, you're of the position that if a woman offers to have sex, then its not the duty of the man to do anything at all but to say "hell yes!, but I'm not responsible if you get pregnant!"
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The fact that the courts disregard everything and make the man literally have to fork up to 75% of his total income is why the court system is screwed up and a laughing stock.
Percentage is determined by the court. if the court finds that the man has been lackluster in his support, then they up the percentage. If the child becomes a burden to the woman (and she can't have an abortion due to her religion or it was too late), then they up his cost of support. Or in the case of my cousin, the support amount was also for punitive reasons.
All of this would be prevented if the MAN took the same amount of responsibility by saying "NO" or putting a sock on that joystick.
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I don't care what your cousin got because she chose to carry it to term. It's not right because the man literally has to wait for a decision from her then she has her hand in his back pocket.
So you don't care that a man who fathered children neglects them because he just wanted to, and absolve him of all the costs of those children. This was a married couple. She got pregnant, and was having twins. HE left her because HE didn't want to be the father to twins. She had to fight in courts for 5 years to get him to pay for support of HIS children.
What kind of misogynistic world do you live in?
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Your cousin's ex-husband might as well be forced to pay your cousin for the rest of his life.
I don't see him dying at age 40 (he was 22 when she got pregnant, they married at 20). Seeing as the court ordered to pay till they turn 18 years of age.
and so what if he has to "pay for the rest of his life". They are HIS children. He is responsible for them.
Yes its called having an abortion, of her choice, without any man telling her otherwise.
Yet, there are many women who choose not to have an abortion. Still doesn't absolve the man of responsibility. 50% he is responsible for the child.
If he didn't want to have a child, then he should have put a sock on that joystick or SAID "No". But, you're of the position that if a woman offers to have sex, then its not the duty of the man to do anything at all but to say "hell yes!, but I'm not responsible if you get pregnant!"
Percentage is determined by the court. if the court finds that the man has been lackluster in his support, then they up the percentage. If the child becomes a burden to the woman (and she can't have an abortion due to her religion or it was too late), then they up his cost of support. Or in the case of my cousin, the support amount was also for punitive reasons.
All of this would be prevented if the MAN took the same amount of responsibility by saying "NO" or putting a sock on that joystick.
So you don't care that a man who fathered children neglects them because he just wanted to, and absolve him of all the costs of those children. This was a married couple. She got pregnant, and was having twins. HE left her because HE didn't want to be the father to twins. She had to fight in courts for 5 years to get him to pay for support of HIS children.
What kind of misogynistic world do you live in?
I don't see him dying at age 40 (he was 22 when she got pregnant, they married at 20). Seeing as the court ordered to pay till they turn 18 years of age.
and so what if he has to "pay for the rest of his life". They are HIS children. He is responsible for them.
No, I don't care whether they were married or not. Men should wear condoms hell you don't what STDs that woman has so you're wrong about my position. No I don't care about your cousin because she knew he left. She could have aborted them. No, they up the percentages nearly anytime the woman calls for it. I know a man who had to sell his grandfather's classic Mustang that he received in his grandfather's estate all because a woman went back and reported his failure to pay because he couldn't pay and told the judge about the car he received. Judge pretty much told him to sell the car or go to jail. The kids aren't even his or legally adopted. Child support is something nearly any judge can give to anyone if he/she considers it best for the children to pay child support.
The court might as well make him pay for the rest of their life. The court is not fair because the feminist movement affected the court as well. I guess I should pay for kids that aren't biologically mine (or legally adopted) to? It's happened before. If I have a relationship with a single mother for a year and break up. She can go back and make me pay child support especially if I was living with her and the child. That is unfair. You call me misogynistic? I just want fairness but you disagree because obviously the system's advantage towards the female is perfect for you. Men are so evil aren't they? You right to think that though because we are.
Finally, pregnancy itself doesn't matter because the woman can abort. The fact the woman gets pregnant matters not as she can revert back to the status quo. After the child is born then you can't unless the child dies (even the you really can't). You're so short sighted and seeing it only the woman's way. As long as she wins. Then you probably get mad when men don't want kids because it's less men out there to take to the court. If the court told your cousin he would have to pay child support every month as long as the children are alive then you would fine with that. Again, you continue to use failed arguments and try to use the pre-pregnancy phase (when it is actually equal) as justification to the post when the post is unequal. Quit telling the men to not have sex or not wear condoms and tell the women to close their legs because they're desperately seeking affection.
No, I don't care whether they were married or not.
I never mentioned marriage until I pointed out my cousin who got help to receive support for her twins, from her ex-husband.
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Men should wear condoms hell you don't what STDs that woman has so you're wrong about my position.
Where the heck did STD's come into this. We are talking about pregnancy and how men are responsible for any child that they helped to create.
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No I don't care about your cousin because she knew he left.
Because she was pregnant with TWINS. Not because he didn't love her (well, that probably was the real reason) but he didn't want to spend the rest of his life, and HIS money to support two children (that was the reason he gave in the divorce proceedings).
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She could have aborted them.
At 6 months, when its illegal in many states to do so? News: women will not realized they are having twins till WELL after abortion is allowed. Since that is when she found out she was having twins. And she didn't want to abort them, because UP until that point of realization, both she and her then husband, were fine with her being pregnant. It wasn't until they realized they'd have two on the way, instead of one, did he begin his crusade of finding ways to "quit" the marriage.
My mother didn't know she was having twins UNTIL the day she gave birth.
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No, they up the percentages nearly anytime the woman calls for it.
Care to offer EVIDENCE to support this claim?
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I know a man who had to sell his grandfather's classic Mustang that he received in his grandfather's estate all because a woman went back and reported his failure to pay because he couldn't pay and told the judge about the car he received. Judge pretty much told him to sell the car or go to jail. The kids aren't even his or legally adopted. Child support is something nearly any judge can give to anyone if he/she considers it best for the children to pay child support.
Of course in this tale, you do not provide any details, seeing as if it wasn't his "kids" then why would she seek the court to have him pay child support?
Missing a lot of details there.
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Finally, pregnancy itself doesn't matter because the woman can abort.
And many women do not because its against their beliefs to do so, against their religion, or its too late to have an abortion. Doesn't absolve the man of his responsibility.
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The fact the woman gets pregnant matters not as she can revert back to the status quo. After the child is born then you can't unless the child dies (even the you really can't). You're so short sighted and seeing it only the woman's way. As long as she wins.
the only short sigtedeness here is done by you.
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Then you probably get mad when men don't want kids because it's less men out there to take to the court.
If they don't want to have kids, then they should abstain from having sex or practice safe sex. They are as much responsible for getting a woman pregnant as much as she is.
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If the court told your cousin he would have to pay child support every month as long as the children are alive then you would fine with that.
Yes I am. because he help create those children. If he didn't want to have children (or twins) then he should have put a sock on it, or don't get married.
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Again, you continue to use failed arguments and try to use the pre-pregnancy phase (when it is actually equal) as justification to the post when the post is unequal.
Nothing about MY argument is a failure. YOu want to absolve men of any responsibility just because he says "I dont want children ,but I will have sex with you, but its all on you to make sure you don't get pregnant. My condom may break, but if that happens and you get pregnant, its still your fault".
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Quit telling the men to not have sex or not wear condoms and tell the women to close their legs because they're desperately seeking affection.
QUIT telling women not to have sex or to use/not use birth control and tell the men to keep their pants zipped because they are desperately seeking control over women.
I never mentioned marriage until I pointed out my cousin who got help to receive support for her twins, from her ex-husband.
I still don't care.
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Where the heck did STD's come into this. We are talking about pregnancy and how men are responsible for any child that they helped to create.
You do know that's also a function of condoms. I'm talking about how women shouldn't have their cake and eat it too. Read your post then mine then come back and talk.
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Because she was pregnant with TWINS. Not because he didn't love her (well, that probably was the real reason) but he didn't want to spend the rest of his life, and HIS money to support two children (that was the reason he gave in the divorce proceedings).
What difference does it make? None.
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At 6 months, when its illegal in many states to do so? News: women will not realized they are having twins till WELL after abortion is allowed. Since that is when she found out she was having twins. And she didn't want to abort them, because UP until that point of realization, both she and her then husband, were fine with her being pregnant. It wasn't until they realized they'd have two on the way, instead of one, did he begin his crusade of finding ways to "quit" the marriage.
My mother didn't know she was having twins UNTIL the day she gave birth.
I guess she didn't know she was pregnant? Try again.
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Care to offer EVIDENCE to support this claim?
I'll be happy to once you start providing evidence.
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Of course in this tale, you do not provide any details, seeing as if it wasn't his "kids" then why would she seek the court to have him pay child support?
Missing a lot of details there.
It's as much of a tale as your cousin. However, this acquaintance actually went through this. There aren't any details missing as it clearly shows that she can go after him anyway if she wants to. The court deemed it best for the children that he still supports the kids that aren't his. It's not uncommon for men to be forced to pay child support yet DNA evidence proves it wasn't his. DNA testing in his case wasn't even necessary as he never even met her until after she decided to breed.
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And many women do not because its against their beliefs to do so, against their religion, or its too late to have an abortion. Doesn't absolve the man of his responsibility.
That gives you no right to go after the man for support because of your religion, or it's too late. If the man knows he won't support the child and let's the woman know ahead of time. She can factor that into her decision on whether she wants to keep it.
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the only short sigtedeness here is done by you.
Call me short sighted for trying to find a fair way for both sides. If anybody is short sighted it's you for believing the woman is always the victim.
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If they don't want to have kids, then they should abstain from having sex or practice safe sex. They are as much responsible for getting a woman pregnant as much as she is.
Stuff happens as a result, there should be a fair solution established. The status quo is not fair. I guess a woman who raped a man has to pay as well. It's happened before.
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Yes I am. because he help create those children. If he didn't want to have children (or twins) then he should have put a sock on it, or don't get married.
You keep saying put a sock on it. Socks break. Are you that daft? Your argument is flawed as they aren't foolproof and you keep punishing the men for things they can't control.
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Nothing about MY argument is a failure. YOu want to absolve men of any responsibility just because he says "I dont want children ,but I will have sex with you, but its all on you to make sure you don't get pregnant. My condom may break, but if that happens and you get pregnant, its still your fault".
I'm not saying it's the woman's fault but she can't expect the man to bail her out. She has every right to rid herself of the child. He has every right to financially rid himself of the child if she wants to go through with it. Both parties have the option to opt out. That is fair.
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QUIT telling women not to have sex or to use/not use birth control and tell the men to keep their pants zipped because they are desperately seeking control over women.
I will when you quit telling men to wear condoms and start trying to argue my points with different arguments. Your arguments failed then and they continue to fail now.
Yellow Jacket.........you are missing the whole point of child support.
When a man has to pay child support, the women hasn't "won".....the children have won.
That is the way the court looks at it and that is the way society looks at it.
Child support is for the benefit of THE CHILDREN.
It is much easier to write a check once a month than it is to actually take care of the children.
When the father has custody, the mother has to pay child support. It's all about THE CHILDREN.
It is not about the man or the woman "winning".
The woman hasn't won? The woman is getting paid usually more than she actually needs. Women will keep the children knowing they get paid. It's unfair that the woman has the options of (abortion, adoption or keeping it) and the man gets absolutely nothing. Then you call it fair. That's retarded.
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