Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
this is not true. pregnancy can be controlled with birth control/contraception and with far greater reliability then NFP.
you seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth or you do not understand the concept of birth control. most BC other then sterilization doe not "defeat the life giving purpose of sex" it promotes acceptance that you can plan your family when you want, not just play "russian roulette".
there is no lie with contraception. it is used until you want to be a parent.
Do you know who uses NFP? Married people who accept that they can and likely will become pregnant.
Do you know who uses contraception? People who are lead to believe that contraception will prevent pregnancy. There is only one guaranteed way to avoid pregnancy, abstinence.
You seem to be under the impression that pregnancy is undue burden, that is unless you specifically desire it at a given time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough
Are you sure you're not a priest? You sound like the priests who used to try to lecture us about this stuff when I was in high school. The only way someone could rattle off this kind of nonsense is if they know absolutely nothing about sex.
Are you also prepared to ban everyone past menopause, or medically infertile from having sex? After all, in those circumstances sex is, as you put it, "closed to its life-giving purpose," just as much as with contraception (even the rhythm method, which is what you favor).
You seem to be missing all the times I've referred to the intent to concieve and the fact that when I refer to contraception and homosexual relations that the people engaging in such do not have the intent to concieve. In the case of homosexual they cannot and in the case of contraception they do not want to. What is the point in doing something if you cannot achieve or do not want the results of what the action is intended to serve?
Take the male member, it serves two purposes: urination and ejaculation with the intent of procreation. To use it with an intent outside of those purposes is disordered.
You seem to be missing all the times I've referred to the intent to concieve and the fact that when I refer to contraception and homosexual relations that the people engaging in such do not have the intent to concieve. In the case of homosexual they cannot and in the case of contraception they do not want to. What is the point in doing something if you cannot achieve or do not want the results of what the action is intended to serve?
Take the male member, it serves two purposes: urination and ejaculation with the intent of procreation. To use it with an intent outside of those purposes is disordered.
No, I get all the times you've referred to "the intent to conceive". You just don't know what you're talking about. Apparently all those hundreds of millions, if not to say billions, of people who have sex, or have sex in ways that can't lead to conception, or have sex once one of the partners is infertile, or otherwise have no intent to add more children to this overpopulated planet are doing it wrong, and you alone, or you and your disordered religion, are the only ones who know how to do it right.
But I just have this nagging question: why is it that humans, unlike other animals, have the ability and desire to have sexual intercourse even when conception is not a possibility? If that's how your god designed things, doesn't that suggest that he doesn't care if we have the "intent to conceive" every time we have sex?
In all your posts you keep talking about the only reason for sex being "the intent to conceive", and that if you don't want to conceive you shouldn't be doing it. Did it ever occur to you that people have sex for pleasure/fun?? Not to mention there are HEALTH BENEFITS to sex?? I'm not talking about being wreck-less with your body or going out and banging strangers (although people do that) but do you honestly believe that even a married couple should not have sex unless, and only if, they want a baby??? And like someone else mentioned, should people who are infertile or have gone through menopause not have sex with their partner for reasons like pleasure/fun/emotional connection? I'm sorry, but I think you are almost delusional.
The Church does not dictate to anyone how to use their God-given free will but they do inform them of the potential results and consequences in accordance with Will of God in and for their lives.
Not that this sentence makes much sense... but, yes, the Church does tell them how they should live if they want to be Catholics in good standing.
Which is one reason they left the Church and are happily worshiping God in a church and with a fellowship that doesn't tell them what to do in the privacy of their own home.
I don't live in a rose-colored world. I live in the same broken, screwed-up world you do. I am fully aware that most people do not wait for marriage. I did. My husband did. Will teach my children that this is the best way, but will not shame them if they do not wait. I will tell them the truth about STD's, pregnancy, broken hearts, etc. Though. They will have to make their own choices.
Consensual sex is good? Not always. My mom contracted an STD from my dad which turned into cancer. She is fighting for her life. All because my dad could not keep his pants zipped. So, no rose colored glasses here. But, do I live with the consequences of other people's bad actions ( that happened years and years ago). You bet, and my kids might have to pay by not getting to grow up with their grandma. And, worst of all, this so called "sexual freedom" may just cost my mom her life.
you live your life with your values, just don't expect others to follow all with your code of conduct. most people engage in sex for fun and not to have a child. to think having sex with any type of birth control other then "rhythm method" that it is some how wrong, or against god/nature is absurd. with all due respect to your mother's troubles, consensual sex is good and for the most part it harms no one. thankfully we are now teaching our young people how to avoid STD's.
You seem to be under the impression that pregnancy is undue burden,
Know anyone who is poverty stricken? Been to any third world countries where children dig through trash to eat? Know any children who have to prostitute themselves to survive? (That's the 12 year old in Thailand having sex with 50 year old men so she can eat.) How about children who are beaten by parents who can't afford them and drink away the lunch money?
It would be WONDERFUL if every woman could have children and raise them in a safe, clean, happy environment. Unfortunately, this is the real world. And children are born into abusive families in horrible environments.
What about them? Which counts more: Innocent children born into dire poverty or men in the Vatican saying it's a sin to use the pill?
Last edited by DewDropInn; 11-02-2012 at 03:03 PM..
Do you know who uses NFP? Married people who accept that they can and likely will become pregnant.
Do you know who uses contraception? People who are lead to believe that contraception will prevent pregnancy. There is only one guaranteed way to avoid pregnancy, abstinence.
your distinction between the two is just about nil. NFP and using the birth control pill or other type of contraception both methods are trying to not to get pregnant, to postpone. people do know when they have sex they could become pregnant. no adult in their right mind is gonna stop having sex because it might lead to pregnancy.
You seem to be under the impression that pregnancy is undue burden, that is unless you specifically desire it at a given time. yes, pregnancy is a huge burden unless you specifically desire it.
You seem to be missing all the times I've referred to the intent to concieve and the fact that when I refer to contraception and homosexual relations that the people engaging in such do not have the intent to concieve. In the case of homosexual they cannot and in the case of contraception they do not want to. What is the point in doing something if you cannot achieve or do not want the results of what the action is intended to serve? there are thousands of things people do just for the sheer pleasure of it. sex is around for many reasons not just procreation. are you against people past the age of reproducing stop having sex? what about couples who don't want children? homosexuals? you do know hetro's have the same kind of sex don't you?
Take the male member, it serves two purposes: urination and ejaculation with the intent of procreation. To use it with an intent outside of those purposes is disordered.
No, I get all the times you've referred to "the intent to conceive". You just don't know what you're talking about. Apparently all those hundreds of millions, if not to say billions, of people who have sex, or have sex in ways that can't lead to conception, or have sex once one of the partners is infertile, or otherwise have no intent to add more children to this overpopulated planet are doing it wrong, and you alone, or you and your disordered religion, are the only ones who know how to do it right.
I'm glad to know that you're one of those overpopulation alarmists, now I can understand how you've found yourself alligned with the contraceptive mentality.
Quote:
But I just have this nagging question: why is it that humans, unlike other animals, have the ability and desire to have sexual intercourse even when conception is not a possibility? If that's how your god designed things, doesn't that suggest that he doesn't care if we have the "intent to conceive" every time we have sex.
Sex can be pleasurable, there is no denying that. But I view pleasure received as a byproduct of the intent to procreate. God wants us to be happy and enjoy our sexuality with our spouse, the more you order your relations towards the Will of God the more fulfillment you'll get out of it. Opening yourself to the gift of life that HE wants to give you also opens you to the intense pleasure he'll also give you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swtmarie
Myllari,
In all your posts you keep talking about the only reason for sex being "the intent to conceive", and that if you don't want to conceive you shouldn't be doing it. Did it ever occur to you that people have sex for pleasure/fun?? Not to mention there are HEALTH BENEFITS to sex?? I'm not talking about being wreck-less with your body or going out and banging strangers (although people do that) but do you honestly believe that even a married couple should not have sex unless, and only if, they want a baby??? And like someone else mentioned, should people who are infertile or have gone through menopause not have sex with their partner for reasons like pleasure/fun/emotional connection? I'm sorry, but I think you are almost delusional.
See above, sex is meant to be an enjoyable bonding experience strictly between one man and one woman. Natural Family Planning, for example, allows a female to track her body's natural cycle and in the instance she would want to avoid pregnancy so to strictly enjoy intimacy with her husband she can do so by tracking when she will be least fertile. Typically there are 2-3 days every month when there is an incredibly low probability that conception will occur, things such as cervical mucus prevent the fertilization of eggs. The female body and its fertility cycle is fascinating to study, I encourage anyone and everyone to check it out. I firmly believe that the more people that learn about and properly use NFP would be incredibly inclined to forget about contraception
Also there are many proven health benefits, everybody is a winner with NFP
I'm glad to know that you're one of those overpopulation alarmists, now I can understand how you've found yourself alligned with the contraceptive mentality.
Sex can be pleasurable, there is no denying that. But I view pleasure received as a byproduct of the intent to procreate. God wants us to be happy and enjoy our sexuality with our spouse, the more you order your relations towards the Will of God the more fulfillment you'll get out of it. Opening yourself to the gift of life that HE wants to give you also opens you to the intense pleasure he'll also give you.
See above, sex is meant to be an enjoyable bonding experience strictly between one man and one woman. Natural Family Planning, for example, allows a female to track her body's natural cycle and in the instance she would want to avoid pregnancy so to strictly enjoy intimacy with her husband she can do so by tracking when she will be least fertile. Typically there are 2-3 days every month when there is an incredibly low probability that conception will occur, things such as cervical mucus prevent the fertilization of eggs. The female body and its fertility cycle is fascinating to study, I encourage anyone and everyone to check it out. I firmly believe that the more people that learn about and properly use NFP would be incredibly inclined to forget about contraception
Also there are many proven health benefits, everybody is a winner with NFP
Wow two whole days a month? No wonder the ultra religious are always getting busted with their pants down.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
