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Old 11-01-2012, 09:54 PM
 
1,442 posts, read 2,563,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frugality View Post
Changing the premise of the original question. The OP stated that stopping a beating heart equals murder. Soldiers are trained to kill, that is their main objective. You don't win wars without killing people.
So killing an innocent unborn baby (with a beating heart) is the same as killing the enemy that is trying equally hard to kill you? I don't think this is what the OP had in mind. And with regard to legality? See my post above regarding the Nazis.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:56 PM
 
2,548 posts, read 2,162,816 times
Reputation: 729
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVAtoCNC View Post
So killing an innocent unborn baby (with a beating heart) is the same as killing the enemy that is trying equally hard to kill you? I don't think this is what the OP had in mind. And with regard to legality? See my post above regarding the Nazis.
I'm not a mind reader, and neither are you. I go by peoples words. Unless you can magically read his mind, I'd rather have the OP spin away
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:28 PM
 
3,614 posts, read 3,501,246 times
Reputation: 911
Quote:
Originally Posted by claudhopper View Post
All the above actions are open to examination as to whether they were necessary or not. Every shooting by a cop requires an investigation.
Maybe for the officer or the doctor, but nobody questions the soldier. That decision is made as a snap-judgement.

Women take much longer times contemplating their decision to abort a fetus. Their internal examination is sufficient since they are the ones who have to live with the action in the first place.

Quote:
We have no control over what God does.
I won't even bother discussing the inane religious aspects of it. The Pro-Life movement is destroyed whenever religion is brought up because it's an entirely worthless argument.


Quote:
Abortions are not subject to any investigation,[ or overview, she says she wants it, and it's done.
Why should they be? When my appendix was removed, there was no committee on determining if I should get it pulled out or not. The only plausible reason for wanting to investigate someone's personal medical decisions would be to shame them for deciding to do something you wouldn't do. Moral superiority where none exists, CH.


Quote:
Who speaks for the life she created - and she could not have created that child without a man. At the very least, let him speak for his child.
You don't think the men (who are still there) have those discussions with women? It's an intensely personal subject. I don't dwell on your decision to get a vasectomy, don't dwell on someone's to get an abortion.

Quote:
Over a million children are murderd in the womb every year, why? Don't dare tell me they are the result of rape, that may account for 1%,let's give another 5% to some abnormality, now we've got 94% killed because there is no consequence to this particular act of murder. That is wrong. The consequence is that a child was murdered for no good reason.
Why? People can't afford a child, or another child. Someone might not be ready to have a child. Someone may have unexpectedly become pregnant. There are a hundred reasons why, none of which I care enough about to interrogate someone over. It is their decision and their choice.

Don't like abortions? Don't have one--but I'd go to war to protect someone's right to choose one.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Northern CA
12,770 posts, read 11,559,730 times
Reputation: 4262
Oh for Gods sake Konrad, you are such an idealist. I don't want to get into the whole honor thy nearest warrior because they are defending your freedoms stupidity. Soldiers are tools to conquer lands and make them bend to our will, so you don't get a pass for murder from me. You go to a foreign country and shoot people defending their country, because your gov't tells you they are your enemy and gives you permission. You didn't get my permission, and let's stop pretending they die so we can live. That's bull. Stay out of their country, and you won't have a reason to kill them, fair enough?

If my parents become dependent upon me, does that give me the right to kill them? Maybe mom is just becoming too much of an inconvenience, she's not all there anymore anyway. I'll let dad know it's time for her to go, I'm sure he won't mind. It's not like he's doing the caretaking anyway.

Why should mothers only have the right to kill their children in the womb and not whenever they become a burden? Since she brought them into this world, who better to take them out, right?

Whatever happened to all the men? Real men want to see their children develop and flourish, they would certainly fight to see them take their first breath. The feminazis have beaten youall into doormats. You want to go out a be hero's for killing the enemies of your gov't, but you can't be bothered standing up for your own children. You disgust me.
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,271,474 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVAtoCNC View Post
For those arguing the "legality", it was legal, encouraged and state-sanctioned in Nazi Germany to kills Jews. But this wasn't murder because it was legal - right???
A little confuse by the idea of born and not born, are you?
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,271,474 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVAtoCNC View Post
Yes or No - considering which "side" you are on. Killing those that are trying to kill you (army v. army or police v. armed criminal) is a lot different that what the OP is talking about. Is "mercy killing" - killing an old person who is very sick - murder? I think it is.
Then you shouldn't do it, if that's your belief.
Why the free reign for war?
We make wars, there's no excuse for them.
Do not people die? You know, real, live, born people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVAtoCNC View Post
Are soldiers trained to kill pregnant women and the babies inside them with beating hearts? or are they trained to kill enemy combatants??
Actually, their training is to kill. Period.
And they do a great job of it, don't they? 100,000+ innocent Iraqis.
They do kill women and children, you know, the ones already born. The ones who have families who love them and want them.
To simple minds, there is no difference between that and a fetus.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:51 AM
 
3,353 posts, read 6,437,729 times
Reputation: 1128
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyForever View Post
Yep.Which is why I want to know 1. What people consider murder and 2.If you agree it stops a beating heart against ones will then how can you be for abortion...I bet someone is going to try and argue babies can't have a will or some such nonsense.
Abortion isn't murder, especially when it's only a embryo. If you could abort a child at 8-months then I may consider that murder, but at a few weeks its ok to abort in my opinion. But if you believe it's murder then I'm fine with that but there's no need to force that's it's murder on others.
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Old 11-02-2012, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,271,474 times
Reputation: 11416
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMOREBOY View Post
Abortion isn't murder, especially when it's only a embryo. If you could abort a child at 8-months then I may consider that murder, but at a few weeks its ok to abort in my opinion. But if you believe it's murder then I'm fine with that but there's no need to force that's it's murder on others.
For someone who claims they're libertarian, the desire to control others is quite interesting.
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:06 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,662 posts, read 15,654,903 times
Reputation: 10911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Murder is the unlawful taking of another human life. Since abortion is legal it cannot be construed as murder. The same is also true for self-defense.
Correct! If it's not illegal, it can't (by definition) be murder.
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Old 11-02-2012, 07:09 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,662 posts, read 15,654,903 times
Reputation: 10911
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyForever View Post
Murder stops a beating heart...abortion does the same thing...NO ONE in their right mind can deny this.
Absolutely irrelevant! Abortion is not illegal, a condition necessary to correctly use the term murder. Everyone capable of reading a dictionary can verify this, even if they're not in their right mind.
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