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I've asked some of the uber-conservatives here if they've actually read the book. The question is always ignored. Always.
It's part of the game. Someone they consider a liberal (which is anyone who doesn't have a framed photo of Ronald Reagan hanging in their living room) says something they don't like..... they get the "Saul Alinsky Lover!!" thrown at them like water on the Wicked Witch of the West. They've never read the book. They don't know anything about Saul Alinsky. But they know his name and they know to toss it out there thinking people will recoil in horror.
It's actually quite humorous.
I've read the book, studied the man's ideology. Here are some quotes. The first thing he advises community organizers to do:
The first step:
The organizer dedicated to changing the life of a particular community must first rub raw the resentments of the people of the community; fan the latent hostilities of many of the people to the point of overt expression. He must search out controversy and issues, rather than avoid them, for unless there is controversy people are not concerned enough to act. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/we...23alinsky.html
A quote from his book:
[SIZE=2]"A Marxist begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the exploitation of the proletariat by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and finally the last stage -- the political paradise of communism." [/SIZE][SIZE=1]p.10 [/SIZE] Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals
[SIZE=1][/SIZE]
He's got lots of fans in Washington, including the president, a die-hard community organizer, whose buddies all love this guy.
As far as I'm concerned, this is why we've got to get this type of belief system as far away from America as possible. Now. Not later.
best,
toodie
This is a common tactic - and a very dishonest one.
If someone expresses an opinion that a liberal disagrees with - they will invariably post something along the lines that the holder of that opinion "hates" something.
Since hatred is universally held as an ugly and negative emotion - the only motive for the use of this word could be to shut down deate - instead of arguing something based on its merits.
The tactic is dishonest, mean-spirited, patheitc, fallacial, and almost exclusively used by liberals.
Why do liberals seem so afraid to engage in a discussion and instead use hyperbole and mischaracterization to frame the argument?
That same could be said of Conservatives. Everyone views the world through their own eyes and our individual experiences shape our perceptions. When it comes to politics, most do not want to admit that they are wrong, or that they are even expressing an opinion and not facts. But if this forum is any indication, Conservatives seem to have a harder time seeing their own biases. I am not saying that Liberals don't do the same, but they seem to do it less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
Uh, huh and according to you libs that shoe fits the majority on the right which is blatantly wrong!
Once again the shoe fits both sides. There are many post in this forum full of I am rubber, you are glue posts from "Conservatives" that there is no point in debating.
This is a common tactic - and a very dishonest one.
If someone expresses an opinion that a liberal disagrees with - they will invariably post something along the lines that the holder of that opinion "hates" something.
Since hatred is universally held as an ugly and negative emotion - the only motive for the use of this word could be to shut down deate - instead of arguing something based on its merits.
The tactic is dishonest, mean-spirited, patheitc, fallacial, and almost exclusively used by liberals.
Why do liberals seem so afraid to engage in a discussion and instead use hyperbole and mischaracterization to frame the argument?
Yet another example of the stereotyping of the right by the liberal left. You guys are making Harrier's and my points for us quite well and yet you are all still clueless that you do it? Read your own posts for evidence!
I use the voices of conservatism, Fox "News" and its various contributors. That a problem? Are there other sources more reliable?
Conservatives don't stereotype? Let's see:
* "Liberals hate America".
* "Liberals hate work".
* "Liberals are jealous of the wealthy".
* "Liberals hate the military and our fighting men and women".
* "Liberals hate business".
* "Liberals hate everything that's good about America".
* "Liberals whine about the plight of the underprivileged".
* *Liberals keep complaining about racism".
* "Liberals expect government to do everything". (George Will)
* "Liberals .....".
See any broadbrushing here? It's used all the time in the media.
All these charges and more from your pundits against your neatly-packaged 'liberal community" - nice and simple, eh.
You have had your right-wing media for decades. My broad-brushing comments, and those of the more recent liberal media, are often a mirror, not pretty eh?
You guys seem to make no effort to distance yourself from the radical extremists.
Why do you think we should respect views not based on evidence or logic, and only seek to hurt other people?
True - the thinking is "they're on the right side". "If they're crazy, they're OUR crazies". Besides they really love 'em regardless of what they say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
You see you just made my point for me, thanks! The liberal lefties always use the actions of the radical fringe element on the right to demonize the entire right. Thanks for playing!
Really - how about Obama and his various "socialist komrades"? No problem there eh...
And why do "moderates" never criticize this "fringe"? It is tacit approval - because you love what they say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
Who's you guys? Most on the right do not associate with the radical fringe but if you didn't claim so what you have?
If Fox dittoheads are "most of the right", then that is the radical fringe. Fox-type media is in no way centrist.
This is a common tactic - and a very dishonest one.
If someone expresses an opinion that a liberal disagrees with - they will invariably post something along the lines that the holder of that opinion "hates" something.
Since hatred is universally held as an ugly and negative emotion - the only motive for the use of this word could be to shut down deate - instead of arguing something based on its merits.
The tactic is dishonest, mean-spirited, patheitc, fallacial, and almost exclusively used by liberals.
Why do liberals seem so afraid to engage in a discussion and instead use hyperbole and mischaracterization to frame the argument?
Perhaps because 'progressives' only mimic whatever lines it takes to win? When all that inculcation received revolves around quasi-scientific studies, theoreticals and "how-it-should-be's", guilt, not reason is the only possible defense. Maybe it's all that MacBook-time video editing & photo-shopping that has led them to be unable to debate? It certainly is more convenient. 'Progressives' understand what social engineering is and that they must embrace it, but they don't comprehend exactly how it is controlled or by whom and for what purpose. They have a strange old-school religious faith in their beliefs, which humors me to no end...
So, 'progressives' only understand that they must win; there is no middle ground other than the rallying motto "It's all good!" Forget that they cannot collate what their desires mean beyond immediate social benefits & symbolic virtues. They are the type that will hate on tobacco but demand marijuana be de-criminalized purely as a recreational 'right'. They demand that everything deemed 'traditional' be torn down only to put up an edifice that will prove just as tyrannical in the long run & just as authoritative in the short end. They are extremely jealous of the power of the Federal Reserve & its burning hot printing presses. They cannot comprehend the concept of multiculturalism other than that there will be more 'ethnic' restaurants to visit & that they don't have to toil away at drudgery-work. Lastly, they believe the mis-truths & glamourized propaganda drilled into them by tenured political hacktivists/educators, who inform them that they are special so as to continue 'teaching' & garnering popularity. Love is big in "progressives'" hearts since it is blind, as it should be when one considers the source that needs so much attention & coddling. The young especially need that sort of TLC no matter what age they seek it.
To be fair, 'conservatives' can be a hypocritical, superstitious lot who seem unable to grasp how human history is fluid & tastes mutate as they should, as they must, depending on viability, interests & more. This is just an age & place where morality & ethics are in retro-phase as they are re-defined. A good number of "conservatives" certainly don't mind licking the feet of the corporatist's clean. Because god = money?
But, yeah. I am humored when listening in on or engaged with 'progressive' liberals attempting intelligent discourse lacking in dramatic media sophisms. It's as if they see the world thru Sally Struthers/Angelina Jolie sunglasses and the world MUST donate again & again while never questioning the wisdom of dedicated repetition & what fools always rush into hearts in hand. Maybe they've fantasized that that's how Oprah became a billionaire or what Jesus would do.
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True - the thinking is "they're on the right side". "If they're crazy, they're OUR crazies". Besides they really love 'em regardless of what they say. 