Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Keep in mind there is one sure-fire way to make sure that Obama gets what he wants in regards to raising the tax rates on the wealthy - and that is to simply let the existing tax cuts expire, THEN have the Democrats in Congress introduce legislation to LOWER the rates on everyone but those wealthy people in question. Faced with that situation the GOP in Congress would have 2 choices:
1) Refuse to go along - in which case THEY will be holding up the tax cuts for the middle class (and will be blamed for it)
or
2) Accept the new tax cuts the way the Democrats have crafted them.
As I said, the GOP is in a POOR position - and Boehner knows it (that's WHY he immediately made the compromise proposal).
That would be be "hard ball" politics but it would be EFFECTIVE. Obama doesn't really want to do that, but IF the GOP doesn't come to the table with an alternative the Democrats will agree to, THAT is what will HAPPEN.
As I said, the GOP is in a very weak position on this issue.
No one has brought this approach up yet, but EVERYONE in Congress is no doubt aware of it's possiblity. It is in effect the "Nuclear Option" for the Democrats.
Keep in mind there is one sure-fire way to make sure that Obama gets what he wants in regards to raising the tax rates on the wealthy - and that is to simply let the existing tax cuts expire, THEN have the Democrats in Congress introduce legislation to LOWER the rates on everyone but those wealthy people in question. Faced with that situation the GOP in Congress would have 2 choices:
1) Refuse to go along - in which case THEY will be holding up the tax cuts for the middle class (and will be blamed for it)
or
2) Accept the new tax cuts the way the Democrats have crafted them.
As I said, the GOP is in a POOR position - and Boehner knows it (that's WHY he immediately made the compromise proposal).
That would be be "hard ball" politics but it would be EFFECTIVE. Obama doesn't really want to do that, but IF the GOP doesn't come to the table with an alternative the Democrats will agree to, THAT is what will HAPPEN.
As I said, the GOP is in a very weak position on this issue.
No one has brought this approach up yet, but EVERYONE in Congress is no doubt aware of it's possiblity. It is in effect the "Nuclear Option" for the Democrats.
Yeah, it's BRUTAL but it WOULD work.
The problem the GOP has is that if they DON'T reach agreement the tax cuts for the wealthy go away anyway, so they HAVE to reach an agreement of SOME KIND or what they want goes away no matter what,
Same is true of course for the social program cuts the Democrats like.
This is the REASON the fiscal cliff was created - to FORCE compromise.
Basically even the democratic leadership has said they are ready. Boehner said that he is willig to raising revenue by TAX REFORM.;not tax hikes.Quite difference from what Democrts have proposed.he amde it quite clear that just a raise in top per centile would only be kickig the can down the road again and not fix the problem which is spending;that has caused the deficit.GOP is in same position they ahve been for two years with gains with gains in house and no fillerbuister proof senate.I think from markets reaction that just like in europe specches are not going to be paid attention to anymore.Like most thoings even the FED actions are no longer havig much effect.
Yeah, it's BRUTAL but it WOULD work.
The problem the GOP has is that if they DON'T reach agreement the tax cuts for the wealthy go away anyway, so they HAVE to reach an agreement of SOME KIND or what they want goes away no matter what,
Same is true of course for the social program cuts the Democrats like.
This is the REASON the fiscal cliff was created - to FORCE compromise.
Ken
And what's $50 billion a year going to do?
Last I looked the fiscal cliff reduces deficits (without any sort of macroeconomic effects accounted) by $600 billion... CBO says any compromise short of that only prolongs addressing the real problem and makes what is actually required that much more painful.
Are you saying democrats would be willing to put their reputations over their country (snickers) so that they could get reelected and republicans would become a minority in both congresses?
Keep in mind there is one sure-fire way to make sure that Obama gets what he wants in regards to raising the tax rates on the wealthy - and that is to simply let the existing tax cuts expire, THEN have the Democrats in Congress introduce legislation to LOWER the rates on everyone but those wealthy people in question. Faced with that situation the GOP in Congress would have 2 choices:
1) Refuse to go along - in which case THEY will be holding up the tax cuts for the middle class (and will be blamed for it)
or
2) Accept the new tax cuts the way the Democrats have crafted them.
As I said, the GOP is in a POOR position - and Boehner knows it (that's WHY he immediately made the compromise proposal).
That would be be "hard ball" politics but it would be EFFECTIVE. Obama doesn't really want to do that, but IF the GOP doesn't come to the table with an alternative the Democrats will agree to, THAT is what will HAPPEN.
As I said, the GOP is in a very weak position on this issue.
No one has brought this approach up yet, but EVERYONE in Congress is no doubt aware of it's possiblity. It is in effect the "Nuclear Option" for the Democrats.
Ken
Mostly true, but extended UC also expires at year end, and IMO, that is the main WH motive to not let the Bush cuts expire.
Mostly true, but extended UC also expires at year end, and IMO, that is the main WH motive to not let the Bush cuts expire.
Yeah but keep in mind that UC could be addressed separately if necessary (just like the tax cuts for the middle class). It wouldn't all have to be addressed together. The fiscal cliff could come and the changes for the cuts be started and then the things the Democrats think would be most popular could be addressed piecemeal and (as I said) if the GOP tried to block those parts they would look REALLY BAD.
As I said, I don't THINK that will happen - and I'm pretty sure Obama and the Democrats dont' WANT it to happen that way, but as a last resort it is (as I said) the "Nuclear Option" method of getting rid of the tax cuts for the wealthy - and Boehner knows it.
I think the GOP plan was to put off the issue until Obama lost the election with the idea that he'd be more pliable during his lame duck session. Of course that plan went out the window when Obama won re-election so now the GOP folks in Congress have to move quickly to avoid the cliff.
Last I looked the fiscal cliff reduces deficits (without any sort of macroeconomic effects accounted) by $600 billion... CBO says any compromise short of that only prolongs addressing the real problem and makes what is actually required that much more painful.
Are you saying democrats would be willing to put their reputations over their country (snickers) so that they could get reelected and republicans would become a minority in both congresses?
As I said, the other issues COULD be addressed piecemeal. I'm sure it's NOT what the Democrats WANT, but it could happen that way if no agreement is reached (and again Boehner knows that).
Ken
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
