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There haven't been any discussions on the politics of the justice system.. So I thought I'd might give a hand at stirring up some controversy.
Our legal system is extremely flawed. Everyday, criminals go free and honest people get jailed. I'm going to use some people I know (from school, work, friend of a friend ordeal) whom have dealt with the harsh reality of the overpowerment of the legal system. I shall name all the guys Bob and all the girls Judy so as to not use real names.
Traffic Law - Unless you hit someone, most traffic violations that go to court are Your Word vs. a Cop's Word. Nine times out of Ten, the judge won't listen to a word you say.
Bob was pulled over by a cop after making a turn. When asked why he was being pulled over, the cop literally said "Your tires made some noise when you turned."
Charge: Reckless Driving
Penalty: Up to 1 year in jail, court fees, Fines, and $1000 unchangeable "Civil Penalties" ((the judge has no control over the civil penalties.. hurray Virginia!))
Of course, he took it to court. Even had a lawyer. In court, the officer claimed that Bob "took the turn at such an immense speed that his tires squealed as the car slightly tilted." However, the police officer did not have his radar, so he could not give exact speed. Bob had documents from the car dealership (and another auto shop) showing that the squealing tires was a direct result of a bent axle.
Verdict: Guilty
Civil Law- In my experiences, as a spectator in court, many of the civil cases I saw were sob stories for money, people suing ex-friends, companies suing non-payers, etc. It was a lot like Judge Joe Brown or Judge Judy.. except it was a real judge in a real courtroom, and both parties weren't being paid to be there.
Case: One-Legged woman vs. Hospital-I-Shall-Not-Name
An ex-coworker tried to sue the doctor whose gross negligence ended up with her only having one leg ((could not continue working at her physically demanding job)). The army of lawyers that the hospital had for that doctor were disgusting... insulting her for not having "real insurance," asking why she chose a teaching hospital over the non-teaching hospital, being generally broke, etc.
Then they brought up a clause in the hospital's code ((that she never signed nor knew of)) that if a student was the cause of a mistake, no legal recourse can be taken.
Verdict: Case Dismissed - currently being appealed to a higher court because she never signed a document stating that any mistakes by students are "SOL" for her.
Criminal Law- This is the side of justice system that has the most amount of flaws. I'm going to break it up into Juvenile and Adult.
Juvenile - I understand the concept. You can't treat a child like an adult because they're children. However, if a "child" has a long list of "convictions" in Juvenile Court, then obviously the system isn't working.
When a kid turns 18, the slate is wiped clean. This is a great idea. Some kid makes a mistake or wrong turn and does something wrong.. now that they are an adult (and hopefully not on that path anymore) they get a clean start. However, this is abused by repeated "child" offenders. Kids who have a list of crimes about a mile long. To them, the system says "Commit as many crimes as you want, you won't have to worry about it when you're 18."
There are times where children are charged as adults. For the most part, these are crimes that usually end up with someone dead or in a vegetative state, or the crime is so planned and heinous that they are truly responsible for their actions.. and spend time in Big Boy Jail.
There was an incident a few years back where two boys, one in his teens and one around 10, hijacked an SUV at a convenience store. They went on a joy-ride with it. Since neither really knew how to drive, they ended up driving into a residential home, running over a mother of two, whose children were upstairs at the time. The boys made a run for it. There were local protests because the older boy was being charged as an adult because he was the driver of the vehicle.
Adult Criminal Court - the most corrupt part of this entire system. So many innocent go to jail, so many criminals walk free. This system is so expensive and bogged down. Our jails are filled with illegal immigrants whom have committed crimes ((they need to be deported)) that are costing the tax payers big money. The jails are no longer deterrents, but rather a free home for those who have none. The local jail here just got two new game systems. Why a jail needs an Xbox or PS3 is beyond me.
The time from when somebody is charged to when the court date is, the appeals, mistrials, and finally sentencing (if necessary) could be weeks, months, and even years. The costs of high-profile cases could easily bankrupt a small town. If the person is found guilty, then they are ordered to pay for the court costs. Then, the system spends more trying to collect that money. If the person is found innocent, the taxpayers are left with the bill.
Corrupted cops again. There are many cops who seem to have "problems" with specific groups of people. Many cops profile based off of age, color, etc etc.
About two years ago, I was stopped while walking home from my job at ACE Hardware. Now, with it being a HARDWARE store, I had a box cutter. I had an awesome Craftsman Box Cutter. It looks like a normal pocket knife, but uses a box cutter blade. Now, after trying to insinuate that the only reason I was out at night was to cause trouble, Officer Douschebag had me empty my vest. Lo and Behold, he checked out my (nifty) box cutter. He charged me with "possession of a switchblade" (which is illegal) and kept my blade for "evidence." When the "evidence" was presented to the judge, it was made quite clear that the "blade" was NOT a switchblade.
Verdict: Innocent
Cost to Taxpayers: My public defender cost, the judge's pay for the hour, the cop's pay for the hour (they get paid to be in court), plus the costs of all the court officials.
Cost to Me: I lost my job ((OMIGOD, you had a WHAT on shift?!)) when the charges were placed
Another problem with our legal system is that no two people get the same treatment. Two people could commit the same crime, but one person might get a worse sentence than the other. There's no regularity. There's "Maximum sentences" for crimes based on severity (misdemeanor, felonies) and the classes of them ((Class 1 Misdemeanor is worse than a Class 2 misdemeanor)) but in the end, it's really up to the judge's discretion. So if a judge hates young adults or hate guys ((women's activist judge)) then that group will get screwed.
I've sat in on many cases.. and our legal system is no better than the kangaroo court we see on TV. Not to mention that the media, in general, overplays these cases into the dirt. I'm sorry, I got tired after the 6th month of the Duke Lacrosse Rape coverage... and I've been sick of hearing about the Vick case for months now. Because of the media, we don't get all of the facts about cases and end up making mistakes in judgement about a case.
Also, all court information is public knowledge (hence why you can sit in on a case that has nothing to do with you) and some states have made the information even more easily accessed through the internet. Virginia is one of those states. Seriously, if you've ever gotten arrested or charged or anything in Virginia (or know somebody who has), you can pull the information up in seconds!
What are everyone else's thoughts on this? I know I'm probably just preaching to the choir...
Another question: Why not a Forum for all things about law? Like, a place for people to ask law advice (like the real estate people) or discuss laws...
Your question about a law forum is a good one. Post a thread in "About the Forum" and see how your suggestion flies with the CDF Administrator.
As for the politics of the justice system, I do think we have strayed from justice in favour of expediency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuharai
There haven't been any discussions on the politics of the justice system.. So I thought I'd might give a hand at stirring up some controversy.
Our legal system is extremely flawed. Everyday, criminals go free and honest people get jailed. I'm going to use some people I know (from school, work, friend of a friend ordeal) whom have dealt with the harsh reality of the overpowerment of the legal system. I shall name all the guys Bob and all the girls Judy so as to not use real names.
Traffic Law - Unless you hit someone, most traffic violations that go to court are Your Word vs. a Cop's Word. Nine times out of Ten, the judge won't listen to a word you say.
Bob was pulled over by a cop after making a turn. When asked why he was being pulled over, the cop literally said "Your tires made some noise when you turned."
Charge: Reckless Driving
Penalty: Up to 1 year in jail, court fees, Fines, and $1000 unchangeable "Civil Penalties" ((the judge has no control over the civil penalties.. hurray Virginia!))
Of course, he took it to court. Even had a lawyer. In court, the officer claimed that Bob "took the turn at such an immense speed that his tires squealed as the car slightly tilted." However, the police officer did not have his radar, so he could not give exact speed. Bob had documents from the car dealership (and another auto shop) showing that the squealing tires was a direct result of a bent axle.
Verdict: Guilty
Civil Law- In my experiences, as a spectator in court, many of the civil cases I saw were sob stories for money, people suing ex-friends, companies suing non-payers, etc. It was a lot like Judge Joe Brown or Judge Judy.. except it was a real judge in a real courtroom, and both parties weren't being paid to be there.
Case: One-Legged woman vs. Hospital-I-Shall-Not-Name
An ex-coworker tried to sue the doctor whose gross negligence ended up with her only having one leg ((could not continue working at her physically demanding job)). The army of lawyers that the hospital had for that doctor were disgusting... insulting her for not having "real insurance," asking why she chose a teaching hospital over the non-teaching hospital, being generally broke, etc.
Then they brought up a clause in the hospital's code ((that she never signed nor knew of)) that if a student was the cause of a mistake, no legal recourse can be taken.
Verdict: Case Dismissed - currently being appealed to a higher court because she never signed a document stating that any mistakes by students are "SOL" for her.
Criminal Law- This is the side of justice system that has the most amount of flaws. I'm going to break it up into Juvenile and Adult.
Juvenile - I understand the concept. You can't treat a child like an adult because they're children. However, if a "child" has a long list of "convictions" in Juvenile Court, then obviously the system isn't working.
When a kid turns 18, the slate is wiped clean. This is a great idea. Some kid makes a mistake or wrong turn and does something wrong.. now that they are an adult (and hopefully not on that path anymore) they get a clean start. However, this is abused by repeated "child" offenders. Kids who have a list of crimes about a mile long. To them, the system says "Commit as many crimes as you want, you won't have to worry about it when you're 18."
There are times where children are charged as adults. For the most part, these are crimes that usually end up with someone dead or in a vegetative state, or the crime is so planned and heinous that they are truly responsible for their actions.. and spend time in Big Boy Jail.
There was an incident a few years back where two boys, one in his teens and one around 10, hijacked an SUV at a convenience store. They went on a joy-ride with it. Since neither really knew how to drive, they ended up driving into a residential home, running over a mother of two, whose children were upstairs at the time. The boys made a run for it. There were local protests because the older boy was being charged as an adult because he was the driver of the vehicle.
Adult Criminal Court - the most corrupt part of this entire system. So many innocent go to jail, so many criminals walk free. This system is so expensive and bogged down. Our jails are filled with illegal immigrants whom have committed crimes ((they need to be deported)) that are costing the tax payers big money. The jails are no longer deterrents, but rather a free home for those who have none. The local jail here just got two new game systems. Why a jail needs an Xbox or PS3 is beyond me.
The time from when somebody is charged to when the court date is, the appeals, mistrials, and finally sentencing (if necessary) could be weeks, months, and even years. The costs of high-profile cases could easily bankrupt a small town. If the person is found guilty, then they are ordered to pay for the court costs. Then, the system spends more trying to collect that money. If the person is found innocent, the taxpayers are left with the bill.
Corrupted cops again. There are many cops who seem to have "problems" with specific groups of people. Many cops profile based off of age, color, etc etc.
About two years ago, I was stopped while walking home from my job at ACE Hardware. Now, with it being a HARDWARE store, I had a box cutter. I had an awesome Craftsman Box Cutter. It looks like a normal pocket knife, but uses a box cutter blade. Now, after trying to insinuate that the only reason I was out at night was to cause trouble, Officer Douschebag had me empty my vest. Lo and Behold, he checked out my (nifty) box cutter. He charged me with "possession of a switchblade" (which is illegal) and kept my blade for "evidence." When the "evidence" was presented to the judge, it was made quite clear that the "blade" was NOT a switchblade.
Verdict: Innocent
Cost to Taxpayers: My public defender cost, the judge's pay for the hour, the cop's pay for the hour (they get paid to be in court), plus the costs of all the court officials.
Cost to Me: I lost my job ((OMIGOD, you had a WHAT on shift?!)) when the charges were placed
Another problem with our legal system is that no two people get the same treatment. Two people could commit the same crime, but one person might get a worse sentence than the other. There's no regularity. There's "Maximum sentences" for crimes based on severity (misdemeanor, felonies) and the classes of them ((Class 1 Misdemeanor is worse than a Class 2 misdemeanor)) but in the end, it's really up to the judge's discretion. So if a judge hates young adults or hate guys ((women's activist judge)) then that group will get screwed.
I've sat in on many cases.. and our legal system is no better than the kangaroo court we see on TV. Not to mention that the media, in general, overplays these cases into the dirt. I'm sorry, I got tired after the 6th month of the Duke Lacrosse Rape coverage... and I've been sick of hearing about the Vick case for months now. Because of the media, we don't get all of the facts about cases and end up making mistakes in judgement about a case.
Also, all court information is public knowledge (hence why you can sit in on a case that has nothing to do with you) and some states have made the information even more easily accessed through the internet. Virginia is one of those states. Seriously, if you've ever gotten arrested or charged or anything in Virginia (or know somebody who has), you can pull the information up in seconds!
What are everyone else's thoughts on this? I know I'm probably just preaching to the choir...
Another question: Why not a Forum for all things about law? Like, a place for people to ask law advice (like the real estate people) or discuss laws...
Well, I posted my idea - but it got shot down. I understand though. Legalities. There's no way to tell who's an actual lawyer. It's all cool though.
Worth a shot, though.
Ontheroad, yeah, we have moved far away from a legal system that actually deals with justice. It's getting pretty bad, ne?
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