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Succession in this country would be very dangerous and leave us more vulnerable in a more threatened world.
Just look at what happened to the former Soviet Union. Communism isn't what it use to be in that country just as Capitalism in this country could go the same way. We should do what we can to keep this republic together.
Hollywood and the City of Berkley California both had political movements to secede from the USA when Bush was in.
You're wrong. Can't speak to Berkeley, but Hollywood sure as hell didn't have a political movement to secede from the United States.
There was (and is) a fairly strong movement that wants Hollywood wanted to secede from Los Angeles County and incorporate as its own city. Which of course has nothing to do with state-level secession from the US whatsoever.
I can see the US breaking into 6 different countries: 1) Southeast red states; 2) Northeast/Mid-Atlantic blue states inc Washington DC; 3) Southwest & Midwest red states; 4) West Coast blue states inc Nevada & Colorado (although CO may elect to go in with Southwest/Midwest red states); 5) Alaska becomes its own country; 6) Hawaii becomes its own country.
Of course, it's possible the red states could unite into a single country.
I don't think the east coast liberals want to bed down with west coast liberals and there's geographical issues since the 2 areas would separated by a red country.
Would have to work out the details on breaking up the US military. Not sure how the federal debt would be paid off but since the majority of citizens making over $250K live in blue states, I think the blue country(ies) should pay if off via higher taxes levied by Emperior Obama.
I have noticed that many people who got laid off in the past few years refused to move to a new location just to get a job since 99 weeks was a great deal. I wonder how many would want to move in order to get some political rest. I would gladly move if my state weren't the color of my thinking but I am not held back by having a job, either since I am retired and would only have to sell my house which would be easy to do because of our oil boom.
What you say about relocation makes a lot of sense but I doubt it would happen.
If red states sucede, they'll move or accept their fate. I'm sure some won't.
I don't think peole think 99 weeks is such a great deal. I was offered interviews in three different states in the weeks following my lay off but my family and roots are here and so is dh's job. We chose not to move because that would have just left him unemployed. That seemed silly.
Interestingly, I would not move for a job but I would move to have a sane government and live with people capable of seeing past their little issues.
I don't see breakup talk as anyhtig but like so mnay statements of individuals because I see no action beig take to actaully propose such. Its often from offhand comments.Does nayone take seroiusly many comentmade as such fro so mnay politcans;if so themn you will beliebve anything play to the maddening crowd to get support or a vote.
Over the last couple years, I have seen a shocking number of threads and posts proposing that the United States break into smaller, more homogeneous regions. I would like to gauge where this is coming from.
It's coming from common sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
I will say this. One of the things that seems pretty obvious to me is that we cannot control other people's thoughts.
Who cares? That is not a reason to secede.
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Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
I am from a large family. My Mom (salt of the earth woman) is a rapture-preparing fundamentalist. Most of my extended family are Tea Party type rural social conservatives with high school education or less. Another branch of the family is all college educated mixed liberal, moderate, and conservative. One is an unflinching atheist. Some relatives are gay. My wife is militantly pro-choice. I am pro-life, but there is no way in hell I am going to tell her what to think or do on such personal matters. I love all of them, and I would give my life for any of them.
The pursuit of ideological purity and freedom are mutually exclusive. Militantly liberal parents raise conservative children. Evangelical parents raise gay, liberal children. Siblings change over the course other their lives. My wife is a fire-breathing populist Howard Dean-type Democrat working for the poor. Her brother is corporate vice president and hardcore Republican. Sometimes we argue. Sometimes we tease. But we cannot control each other. And our politics are always second to our feelings for each other.
There are liberals in red states, and conservatives in blue states. Lots of them, with jobs, family, and deep roots and love of place that will keep them where they are. I think it is a fool's journey to believe that by slicing up our country, we will get homogeneous countries that are ideologically pure and unchanging.
This would all be fascinating if I was to actually waste my time reading it.
Secession is about improving the quality of life, and growing and enriching one's self. In short, it has to do with basic garden-variety Economics.
It has nothing to do with Red or Blue Pills or anything else.
Simple question: Would you like for your family, yourself and your community to be better off in the future, or worse off than your situation is now?
If you wish to be better off, then secession is right for you. If your desire is to be less than mediocre on a great day, then hang with the sheep(le).
Simply put...
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey
Compromise gave us $16 trillion in debt.
Yes it did.
Not compromising....
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanologist
Succession in this country would be very dangerous and leave us more vulnerable in a more threatened world.
That's your problem, not mine. If Maine secedes and you lose a war because you don't have troops from Maine.....then that pretty much speaks for itself.
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Originally Posted by urbanologist
Just look at what happened to the former Soviet Union.
Why would I waste my time doing that?
Not seeing the relevance....
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZUMAN
I can see the US breaking into 6 different countries: 1) Southeast red states; 2) Northeast/Mid-Atlantic blue states inc Washington DC; 3) Southwest & Midwest red states; 4) West Coast blue states inc Nevada & Colorado (although CO may elect to go in with Southwest/Midwest red states); 5) Alaska becomes its own country; 6) Hawaii becomes its own country.
Of course, it's possible the red states could unite into a single country.
I don't think the east coast liberals want to bed down with west coast liberals and there's geographical issues since the 2 areas would separated by a red country.
Would have to work out the details on breaking up the US military. Not sure how the federal debt would be paid off but since the majority of citizens making over $250K live in blue states, I think the blue country(ies) should pay if off via higher taxes levied by Emperior Obama.
You can see that? You might want to make an appointment with an eye doctor post haste.
For your information, East Pakistan and West Pakistan were separated by India.
National debt is always inherited by the Successor State. That is International Law.
Secession is about Economics. Do you want more money, or not?
It's just that simple. If you want less money, stay with the Grand Ol' US of A.
American politics has devolved to the point that each side tries to forcce the other to do things it feels morally opposed to. Why continue such a spiteful system when you could have a peaceful partition so that folks could live in countries broadly in line with their moral code? Lust for power and a desire to control your fellow man are the only reasons people want to continue the current system.
American politics has devolved to the point that each side tries to forcce the other to do things it feels morally opposed to. Why continue such a spiteful system when you could have a peaceful partition so that folks could live in countries broadly in line with their moral code? Lust for power and a desire to control your fellow man are the only reasons people want to continue the current system.
I understand where you are coming from. But the reality is that, secession at this time is simply impossible, because over the short term it would just be too chaotic. There would be too many issues, the economy is too integrated, you have companies with assets all over the country, loans denominated in US dollars by banks for houses all across the country. If there was secession, then there would have to be a new currency which wouldn't be pegged to the US dollar, which means utter chaos in the financial industry on all fronts. You have companies like Wal-mart and McDonald's with stores in every US state. You have railroads and telephone companies and cable tv companies, and trucking companies and distribution networks like Amazon all over the country. There would be just too many issues to address in a way that if not handled, would cause a massive economic depression.
The only way to feasibly have outright secession, would be if this country was already in an extreme economic depression.
While secession might at first sound like a good proposition. I don't believe that secession is a feasible solution to the problems that this country faces.
The question is, is there a way to save this country that wouldn't create total economic chaos. Which would also be largely agreeable by all political factions in this country?
In my opinion, the only way to accomplish those ends, would be to call for a new constitution to be drafted by all of the states, which would have to be ratified by all of the states.
Spend some time thinking about it before you respond.
In my opinion, a new constitution that had to be approved by all of the states, would result in roughly the equivalent of secession. But wouldn't break the country apart and wouldn't create economic chaos and uncertainty. Think about it.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 11-12-2012 at 12:28 AM..
It may be time to consider breaking up. Nearly half of all voters did not vote for obama. If half of your people are going to be unhappy no matter what you do, maybe it's time to split in two. Then each half can be happy with their choices. I can't see trying to maintain the union when half of your people are going to be miserable no matter what you choose. It would be better to split up and offer a choice as to where to live. Then people could vote with their feet and feel good about their choices. It's clear we have different goals and they are too disperate to reconcile.
Oh, and my prediction is that this poll will be split. America is CLEARLY divided almost in half right now. The question is who gets which states. Some of us will have to move. If you're red in a blue state or blue in a red state, you'll need a u-haul. On the bright side, all of this moving could just move some real estate and get the housing market moving again.
So should the nation split into smaller nations every time there is an election and a sizable portion of voters get disgruntled? It sounds rather ridiculous.
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