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So should the nation split into smaller nations every time there is an election and a sizable portion of voters get disgruntled? It sounds rather ridiculous.
This is what I see too. The desire for secession is the symptom. Intolerance is the disease. It won't go away by breaking up the country.
It may be time to consider breaking up. Nearly half of all voters did not vote for obama. If half of your people are going to be unhappy no matter what you do, maybe it's time to split in two. Then each half can be happy with their choices. I can't see trying to maintain the union when half of your people are going to be miserable no matter what you choose. It would be better to split up and offer a choice as to where to live. Then people could vote with their feet and feel good about their choices. It's clear we have different goals and they are too disperate to reconcile.
Oh, and my prediction is that this poll will be split. America is CLEARLY divided almost in half right now. The question is who gets which states. Some of us will have to move. If you're red in a blue state or blue in a red state, you'll need a u-haul. On the bright side, all of this moving could just move some real estate and get the housing market moving again.
I am in total agreement. IMO the majority of politicians on either side of the political aisle are full of it and only looking out for themselves in financial preparation of when they leave office.
I don't think we need to go all the way with secession. The republic could be reworked to satisfy most. We would need a new constitution, but the end result would look something like this:
1. A full restoration of the originally envisioned constitutional limits on federal power - the Tenth Amendment, with no additional amendments. All jurisprudence based on amendments 11 through 26 would be repealed.
2. Consolidation of small states, by region and culture, into four to six "provinces" with their own constitutions.
These provinces would have the power to do what the federal government would not, if they so chose. Most likely there would be at least two provinces to satisfy the majority of Americans politically.
This is what I see too. The desire for secession is the symptom. Intolerance is the disease. It won't go away by breaking up the country.
Very well stated. Then, once they find they aren't getting their way (and there are people with beliefs they don't like) in their new republic or state or province or canton or whatever they'd choose to call it, they'll still be unhappy and complaining about everyone else.
Predicting who would want secession is about as difficult as predicting that salmon will head up river to spawn.
This is what I see too. The desire for secession is the symptom. Intolerance is the disease. It won't go away by breaking up the country.
Intolerance doesn't do it justice. Everyone is intolerant of some things. The federal government is increasingly intolerant of large groups of Americans, especially social and religious conservatives. The issue is where the lines of tolerance should be drawn.
You really don't have a functional country when its citizens don't even agree on who's human and who isn't, for Pete's sake, or what marriage is and isn't, or whether murder should be legalized, or even whether truth exists apart from the state.
The political realm in a democratic society requires a minimum level of moral capital and cultural common ground. We don't have that anymore.
This is what I see too. The desire for secession is the symptom. Intolerance is the disease. It won't go away by breaking up the country.
The perhaps you need to make an appointment with an eye-doctor....so you can see reality.
Symptomatically...
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambient
So should the nation split into smaller nations every time there is an election and a sizable portion of voters get disgruntled? It sounds rather ridiculous.
That's how propaganda and disinformation artists like to frame it.
Secession is something that has been discussed with ever-growing frequency for about 20 years now. There were, and still are, secessionist movements in some of the New England States, and then Texans have been pondering the issue for quite a while as well.
It's a matter of economics, not intolerance, although I don't doubt that there are some idiots who cannot figure it out.
It's like being married to an high-maintenance woman who is constantly running up your credit cards and draining your bank accounts. The smart guys eventually get tired of the stupidity and file for divorce --- the dumb ones don't know when to quit.
So, what is it that you all fear? Why do you keep avoiding the real issue?
Why do you not want more wealth, and a better quality of life for your family, your children and grand-children, your neighbors, your community and you?
The perhaps you need to make an appointment with an eye-doctor....so you can see reality.
Symptomatically...
Mircea
That's how propaganda and disinformation artists like to frame it.
Secession is something that has been discussed with ever-growing frequency for about 20 years now. There were, and still are, secessionist movements in some of the New England States, and then Texans have been pondering the issue for quite a while as well.
It's a matter of economics, not intolerance, although I don't doubt that there are some idiots who cannot figure it out.
It's like being married to an high-maintenance woman who is constantly running up your credit cards and draining your bank accounts. The smart guys eventually get tired of the stupidity and file for divorce --- the dumb ones don't know when to quit.
So, what is it that you all fear? Why do you keep avoiding the real issue?
Why do you not want more wealth, and a better quality of life for your family, your children and grand-children, your neighbors, your community and you?
Questioning...
Mircea
Although I do favor some kind of modified, legal, peaceful secession/independence for certain states or regions, I don't think the seceding entities are likely to be more economically prosperous than they already are. Although there would be more small businesses and entrepreneurs, and therefore more economic independence for more people, average incomes would probably be lower.
It's undeniable that higher intelligence and education correlates with political liberalism in this country. It also correlates with economic success. The states most likely to secede are not on that end of the bell curve.
And that's perfectly OK with me. Intelligence is overrated. So is wealth and prosperity. Give me truth, beauty and goodness over intelligence any day.
Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 11-12-2012 at 03:28 PM..
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