Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25
Are you suggesting that one may only be pro-Empire or pro-secessionist? I respectfully disagree.
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It's ironic that the Left rails against Imperialism, yet benefits from it and makes no attempt to express dissatisfaction through any means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25
Secession-ism is not making a choice for the individual, it's making a choice for the whole state.
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Historically, that has never been the case.
For revolutions, you will never have more than 10% of the support of the population. In secessionist movements, it depends on the exact nature (reason) for secession. Where irredentism is the over-riding factor, you'll likely find near 90% support. And the 10% who oppose? Most likely the "chosen few" (often a minority group -- an ethnic group or religious group) who are part of the
status quo and would lose whatever benefits or privileges they were receiving.
For colonial secession, it depends on the relationship between the colonists and the colonial power. In the US, ~40% of colonists were Tories and supported the king, ~35% of colonists didn't give a damn --- because their lot in life would not change or be affected regardless of the political situation. ~25% supported secession, but only 10% of the entire population were actively involved with either the Continental Army or the Continental Congress.
The point is that a small minority typically chooses for the majority. It's just the nature of people. People are basically "not good" and very weak. Everyone wants money; but few are willing to work hard for it. Everyone wants freedom; but few are willing to risk their lives for it.
For any revolution or secession movement in the US, don't expect near 100% support; don't even expect a simple majority (51%) to support it; and don't expect more than 10% to actively participate (actively meaning both active and passive support).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25
This sounds like such a fairy tale. You know which countries would be interested in helping your Awesome New Country?
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Nearly all of them....sooner or later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25
How are you going to pay your military and for the weapons needed?
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Why would they need a military?
You think Vermont (a Blue State that has had a secessionist movement for a while) is going to have 6 aircraft carriers plying the oceans blue?
Or did you mean a military and weapons
in order to secede?
You still don't need either.
I guarandamntee you, if a State seceded tomorrow, the only thing that would happen is the federal government would issue an harshly worded statement....and that would be the end of it.
The national government pretending to be a federal government (which is one of the reasons people support secession) will not send troops; it doesn't have the troops to send; the rest of the world would condemn the US for using military force; it took the US military 7 years fumbling around the Sunni Triangle in Iraq -- the size of Illinois -- and it didn't even do a good job; the US is now 11 years in Afghanistan and getting its ass kicked.
I don't expect you to understand asymmetrical warfare, and in fact, in an ideal world, you would know nothing of it, but I do, and let's just say any attempt to use military force would be a total disaster for the US.
So much so, that your only concern will be from where you will be getting your next meal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25
Why do you assume an unstable, new nation's currency would be stronger than the dollar or any other currency?
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No one makes that assumption, however the fact remains that many US States have a GDP larger than European States.
In fact, there are US cities that have a GDP larger than European countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25
Who says those other states will (a) break away with Texas and (b) be on Texas's side?
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No intelligent person that I know is saying that. The purpose of seceding would be to gain total control of the destiny of your people so that your future (politically, economically and globally) is improved and enhanced for them and their children, and grand-children.
Suggesting...
Mircea
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim6624
Also, I'm not sure why you are implying I have "grand visions" of the confederacy returning.....
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Yes, you are sure.
You know full well that when buried in facts and unable to create a cogent coherent counter-argument, the Left degenerates into screaming "racism," or "slavery."
Here's a great example. Someone will say that 50,000 people die in the US because they have no "health insurance." So you counter that with the fact that the World Health Organization says 25,000 people die each year in the UK, because the government rations health care by denying treatment, delaying treatment or dilution treatment.
So then you bury them with additional facts...
25,000 / 62,000,000 * 100,000 = 40.3 deaths per 100,000 in the UK
50,000 / 314,000,000 * 100,000 = 16 deaths per 100,000 in the US
...proving that people with UHC in Britain are 2 1/2 times more likely to die than than Americans who don't have UHC...and worse....the government is killing those people in the UK, and they're unable to respond, except by frothing at the mouth and employing the words racist, racism, KKK, Nazi, people-hater or something like that.
It's the same thing anytime anyone mentions States Rights. The left always steers the argument to the Old South, Slavery etc etc etc, because they don't have a valid argument to oppose.
Implying...
Mircea
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