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Oh, come on. The salary of the average worker has in no way kept pace with that of the CEO and the output of their work is no better, it's just that interlocking directorates keep voting these pay raises. The average salary has not kept pace with the company's value, nor with the cost of living.
I never stated anything contrary to what your above statement.
They are all accurate observations, but they still do not mean that a company should be required to subsidize the cost of living for their employees, especially in a situation where the work being provided is not adding as much value to the business as the salary that you are saying they "deserve" just for showing up.
Really? You want to use an example of people that make the majority of their income from tips?
And honestly, a large majority of tipped workers are high school and college students just looking for extra work for summers/off time. But yes, your government has set their rate at $2.13/hour, I personally disagree with the concept of a minimum wage because I think it unfairly punishes many.
I'm not. Simply stating that the vast majority on food stamps are children, elderly, disabled and working poor. That is a fact.
There are programs like WIC. I am not against helping those in need, I am against those who make it look like they are in need on paper but abuse the system.
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They work to pay rent, utilities, car payments, etc. If they prefer to buy rabbit or taragon over beef and paprika, who cares?
I care, the moment they collect any sort of assistance to pay their basic needs. The minute you take a handout, you lose your choice of preference. You get the basics.
The reason for this from what I ahve seen. Is people purposely work themselves "poor". I had a girl in her low 20s work for me actually mad I scheduled her over 30 hours a week, she has no kids, not in school, not taking care of an elder, she just prefers to work about 25 hours a week., no more. Collect a check and live, then go to the club. She did talk about how she wanted to go on the REAL WORLD so she could represent Daytona Beach, FL...
The goal should be give them the basics needed to survive, but make it as unberable as possible as it goes. No gluten free, vegan, organic crap. The basics as approved by the FDA.
In 2008, there were 6,299,930 food and beverage serving workers (henceforth referred to as “food and beverage serversâ€) employed in the United States, with this number expected to increase by 10 percent by 2018.1 Food and beverage servers included 503,420 bartenders; 2,708,840 combined food preparation and serving workers; 527,530 counter attendants, cafeteria, food concession, and coffee shop workers; 2,371,750 waiters and waitresses; and 188,390 nonrestaurant food servers in 2008.2 This occupation attracts many workers in their teens and twenties who may have never worked as food and beverage servers before.3
And the point is, that these are workers that just don't have the skill set or the value add that would justify paying some artificially inflated wage. They are very easily replaced, it may not sound "fair" but the supply/demand of a server job does not justify high pay in most instances. Personally I tend to always tip at 20% for that reason when I get service that I find meets my expectations, and I'm not opposed to going well above that if the service is better.
One benefit that these workers have is that they know they can get away with not paying much tax on the cash tips that they get too.
There are programs like WIC. I am not against helping those in need, I am against those who make it look like they are in need on paper but abuse the system.
I care, the moment they collect any sort of assistance to pay their basic needs. The minute you take a handout, you lose your choice of preference. You get the basics.
The reason for this from what I ahve seen. Is people purposely work themselves "poor". I had a girl in her low 20s work for me actually mad I scheduled her over 30 hours a week, she has no kids, not in school, not taking care of an elder, she just prefers to work about 25 hours a week., no more. Collect a check and live, then go to the club. She did talk about how she wanted to go on the REAL WORLD so she could represent Daytona Beach, FL...
The goal should be give them the basics needed to survive, but make it as unberable as possible as it goes. No gluten free, vegan, organic crap. The basics as approved by the FDA.
The problem with this is that it would take a HUGE amount of expensive work to classify every single food product available in this country as acceptable/unacceptable, and to ensure that retailers comply. There's no way is system could exist without flaws, too. Imagine you're poor and incredibly busy and you're at a store and are trying to juggle between different fruits that are approved or disapproved by the FDA, and then you get to the checkout counter and you can't buy rice because someone at the store screwed up the database.
I never stated anything contrary to what your above statement.
They are all accurate observations, but they still do not mean that a company should be required to subsidize the cost of living for their employees, especially in a situation where the work being provided is not adding as much value to the business as the salary that you are saying they "deserve" just for showing up.
It seems to me as though we are heading back to the standard of living of pre-union days. Back then, without unions and government legislation there were twelve hour workdays, unsafe conditions, massive pollution, child labor, and seven day work weeks.
Yes, a society does owe it's people minimal standards of living. I don't want to go back to those days where business rules.
Look at the working conditions of China. Is that what we want?
The ideal standards of business would seem to lead us in that direction. Surely, you think businesses require some regulation by government. Self regulation does not work, it would lead to a downward spiral, each business saying they had to cut corners because the competition was doing so.
Last edited by goldengrain; 11-16-2012 at 04:01 PM..
It seems to me as though we are heading back to the standard of living of pre-union days. Back then, without unions and government legislation there were twelve hour workdays, unsafe conditions, massive pollution, child labor, and seven day work weeks.
Yes, a society does owe it's people minimal standards of living. I don't want to go back to those days where business rules.
Look at the working conditions of China. Is that what we want?
Yes, you said it, a society, not private business alone. Private business can participate as they see fit to donate to charity and support their community, you cant and shouldn't have government mandates for that. Churches, charities, neighborhoods, foundations, and SOME help from state and federal government is where it needs to come from.
Nobody is advocating for slave or child labor, and quite frankly when I was in college I would have killed for 12 hour work days so I could make more money in the jobs I was working. There were some weeks when I took all of the work I could get and ended up with huge checks from OT pay, as long as it is completely voluntary and safe, I dont see the problem.
Yes, you said it, a society, not private business alone. Private business can participate as they see fit to donate to charity and support their community, you cant and shouldn't have government mandates for that. Churches, charities, neighborhoods, foundations, and SOME help from state and federal government is where it needs to come from.
Nobody is advocating for slave or child labor, and quite frankly when I was in college I would have killed for 12 hour work days so I could make more money in the jobs I was working. There were some weeks when I took all of the work I could get and ended up with huge checks from OT pay, as long as it is completely voluntary and safe, I dont see the problem.
If there are not government regulations and business is given free reign, you have to know that we will end up the way we were in the bad old days.
Businesses will cut corners, create unsafe environments, demand longer work days/weeks for less pay, etc, all in the knowledge that if they don't do it, they will not be able to match or undercut their competitors in price.
What do you think has caused the abysmal economic situation we are in today? Competition with the abysmal working conditions overseas in the third world.
We need to raise working and environmental standards in companies the world round rather than decreasing them at home. Otherwise, it is a race downhill for the lowest salaries and standard of living.
If there are not government regulations and business is given free reign, you have to know that we will end up the way we were in the bad old days.
Businesses will cut corners, create unsafe environments, demand longer work days/weeks for less pay, etc, all in the knowledge that if they don't do it, they will not be able to match or undercut their competitors in price.
What do you think has caused the abysmal economic situation we are in today? Competition with the abysmal working conditions overseas in the third world.
People LOVE to start debates here by saying "If there are not government regulations" yet I know that I, nor most other people here have clamored for NO government regulations. I'm not going to debate this based on that false premise.
I will however say that we need some regulations and we need to actually enforce them rather than piling on more that are equally ignored and not enforced.
...because we know that's what this is really all about with the right wingers on here. "Food stamps, welfare, able bodied people not working.." are all code words for blacks and hispanics. They throw in the hipsters because they are notriously liberal.
this thread is about goofy white hipsters. but nice try at shrieking 'racism.'
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