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Old 11-19-2012, 06:25 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,305,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
This is a valid point that no one chooses to address. My parents had to do such jobs at one time. Then they moved East. That door would be closed to them now and they were citizens. Illegals are a cruelty done to the American poor.
Is it the illegals or the companies that hire them?
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,972,661 times
Reputation: 8912
Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyFeast5000 View Post
You were just advocating that the government restrict food for the needy to rice, beans, and lettuce.

You do understand that there are needy people who are sick, who have special dietary needs, who have allergies, etc., etc., etc.
Sure, but we are not talking of exceptions here. There can always be provisions for them. I think conservatives are complaining of abuses of the system, and are so fed up with that that they get disgusted with the entire idea of helping people.

I'm all for health care, food, and housing for the poor and needy. I, too, though, am fed up with the abuses and think people should be vetted really thoroughly. I remember a secretary in our company who lived in an apartment that most of us could not afford. When her daughter was 18 this thirty something woman had another child because the money that the government gave her for her kids is what kept her in that apartment.

People who have more kids than they can support on their own should expect nothing from government. They are, in effect, cheating others who really are needy like that person who posted about his cancer and his dad's Alzheimers. The cheats in the system are stealing from the really needy.

New Jersey passed a law, some time ago, that a second child had while on welfare would not be supported. This put an end to a lot of the multi generational welfare spongers. It is partly because of this law that is freeing up funds in cities like Newark and turning them around. That, and a miracle worker like Cory Booker, bless him.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:27 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,305,403 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
I'm liberal and family planning is why we have abortion as a last ditch effort to prevent unwanted extra mouths. It rides along with your theme of personal responsibility.
Did you ever read Freakonomics? It's a really good book. One of the chapters is about abortion and crime rates. Apparently, the crime rates went down in the 90s in this country just about the time that many impoverished babies would have been at the age to commit crimes. The authors posit (and back up with proof) that since abortion was legalized in the 70s, many of those would be criminals were aborted.

That's a lot of food for thought.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:28 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,305,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
I cannot conceive that anyone here would turn a cold shoulder to your situation. Mostly, from what I read, people are complaining of those who game the system, who have not exhausted all possibilities to help themselves and have managed to collect from taxpayers. I don't know how many of those there are.

It is so very distressing that there is not an intervention in your family's situation. In some other countries you would not be suffering such stress on top of your other problems.
But people do. And they turn a cold shoulder to many other situations of the poor. It's really sad.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Florida
23,173 posts, read 26,197,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Really? That's about 75% higher than the 5% overpay rate that has been reported in studies on assistance abuse.
I wonder why
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,972,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself View Post
Exactly which taxes of yours have gone up under Obama? Oh, yeah, not a single one so far.

Also, it isn't hipsters or young people in northern cities who are on welfare by and large it is poor people in the south. Crappy red states who practice failed Republican policies which have never worked and will never work. That's why there are so many desperately poor people in red states.
This is true.
These are states that businesses move to because they are union free. Because of this labor is really cheap. Even working people must go on government assistance because they are not paid a living wage. The taxpayer, in these instances, is subsidizing business by these policies. The cheats are not the poor, but the business and government leaders who collude to keep wages so low.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,972,661 times
Reputation: 8912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Is it the illegals or the companies that hire them?
It's actually the government for not enforcing laws forbidding the hiring of these people nor making the penalties higher.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,972,661 times
Reputation: 8912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
Did you ever read Freakonomics? It's a really good book. One of the chapters is about abortion and crime rates. Apparently, the crime rates went down in the 90s in this country just about the time that many impoverished babies would have been at the age to commit crimes. The authors posit (and back up with proof) that since abortion was legalized in the 70s, many of those would be criminals were aborted.

That's a lot of food for thought.
Yes, I have, and thanks for reminding me.
That makes a lot of sense. Children should only be brought into the world when they can be provided for and are wanted. I worked with a guy who said if he'd waited for that he never would have had any. I think he's a jerk, personally.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,783,759 times
Reputation: 24863
Default Freakonomics

IIRC there is a second edition of that most interesting book.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:26 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,305,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
It's actually the government for not enforcing laws forbidding the hiring of these people nor making the penalties higher.
I agree the government should enforce laws on the books. However, you must blame the companies too. They know it is wrong and they prey upon people who are desperate to eke out a living.
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