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Old 11-14-2012, 05:31 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,073 posts, read 5,619,799 times
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Could this be? Obama wants to go over the fiscal cliff...blame the Republicans...and keep the money to spend.

I'm not sure about this, but news reports indicate that his tax proposals require dramatically higher revenue from the top 2%--maybe a one-third increase in dollars paid. The top 1% paid 36% of all tax dollars collected in 2009 (latest year with detailed data) so we might guess the top 2% pay 45% or so of all income tax dollars collected.

These people would be way better off tax-wise if we just go over the fiscal cliff. Sure, the top tax brackets would rise, but the exclusions and deductions available to them would be preserved.

Of course, if we go over the fiscal cliff, all the wonderful benefits of the Bush tax cuts for the rest of us would be gone. The bottom bracket would rise 50% (from 10% to 15%) and every other bracket would increase by a smaller percentage--with the lowest percentage increase going to the highest brackets. Goodbye, child credit. And millions more at the lowest income levels would come back on the tax rolls.

So my question to fellow posters is, are the president's proposals just an attempt to establish a bargaining position that will be watered down later, or is he angling for going over the fiscal cliff and dramatically increasing government revenues to further his policy agenda? What do you think?

National Taxpayers Union - Who Pays Income Taxes?
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Rational World Park
4,991 posts, read 4,066,054 times
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Voters have already stated they'd blame republicans if we go over the fiscal cliff. I hope Obama pushes them over so we can be done with them in 2014.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Barrington
54,583 posts, read 38,081,972 times
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Cliff is drama. It's more like stepping off the curb.

The world will not end on 12/31 if this remains unaddressed. Congress can gather in January and do a retroactive thing and kick the can down the road to another day.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:50 PM
 
48,508 posts, read 87,781,990 times
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I think he made it clear that he will not abrgian i good faith today. I hope congress offers him Simpson/Bowles to sign or not. Tengang of six has new life.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:58 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,444 posts, read 23,885,989 times
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I've said all along that the Democrats are in a COMMANDING position regarding this issue now. The fact is the tax rate for the wealthy IS going to go up (count on it) for the simple reason that - if nothing else, the Democrats can simply step off the cliff (as mentioned it's not "really a cliff" - more like a gradual slope) and then simply push for legislation to lower the rates for everyone EXCEPT those folks in the top few percent. Under those circumstance I DARE the GOP to stand in the way of such legislation. If they choose to stand in the way of tax breaks for 98% of the population for the sake of the top 2%, they will be CREAMED in the 2014 mid-terms - and the GOP members of Congress KNOW it, so in the final analysis they'll have no other realistic option but to cave on the issue.

Ken
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:07 PM
 
126 posts, read 78,261 times
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His campaign mantra wasn't FORWARD for no reason...he is right FORWARD right off the cliff.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:11 PM
 
48,508 posts, read 87,781,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
I've said all along that the Democrats are in a COMMANDING position regarding this issue now. The fact is the tax rate for the wealthy IS going to go up (count on it) for the simple reason that - if nothing else, the Democrats can simply step off the cliff (as mentioned it's not "really a cliff" - more like a gradual slope) and then simply push for legislation to lower the rates for everyone EXCEPT those folks in the top few percent. Under those circumstance I DARE the GOP to stand in the way of such legislation. If they choose to stand in the way of tax breaks for 98% of the population for the sake of the top 2%, they will be CREAMED in the 2014 mid-terms - and the GOP members of Congress KNOW it, so in the final analysis they'll have no other realistic option but to cave on the issue.

Ken
What commandig position? Nothig has really chnaged since mid term and when they agred tot eh fiscal cliff.Look at markets reaction to his speech and the meetings for a clue. I think the GOP has to mauch to lose oif they cave to Obam rich only plan myself. Its polical suicide as Bush Sr found out.I thionk Oabma can't amke the cuts require ;has to cover.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:15 PM
 
48,508 posts, read 87,781,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBalfor View Post
I've said all along that the Democrats are in a COMMANDING position regarding this issue now. The fact is the tax rate for the wealthy IS going to go up (count on it) for the simple reason that - if nothing else, the Democrats can simply step off the cliff (as mentioned it's not "really a cliff" - more like a gradual slope) and then simply push for legislation to lower the rates for everyone EXCEPT those folks in the top few percent. Under those circumstance I DARE the GOP to stand in the way of such legislation. If they choose to stand in the way of tax breaks for 98% of the population for the sake of the top 2%, they will be CREAMED in the 2014 mid-terms - and the GOP members of Congress KNOW it, so in the final analysis they'll have no other realistic option but to cave on the issue.

Ken
What commanding positio;nothig has chnaged sicne mid term losses Democrats suffered. its not 2008 anymoew. I think thatwe are goigover the clff after Obam refuses the GOP proposal whil wouldn't include the tax levels he just said he wants. Its upto congress now.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:16 PM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,444 posts, read 23,885,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
What commandig position? Nothig has really chnaged since mid term and when they agred tot eh fiscal cliff.Look at markets reaction to his speech and the meetings for a clue. I think the GOP has to mauch to lose oif they cave to Obam rich only plan myself. Its polical suicide as Bush Sr found out.
And standing in the way of tax cuts for 98% of Americans ISN'T "political suicide"?

That's my WHOLE POINT.
The GOP is in a lose/lose situation, but they'll lose EVEN BIGGER if they block tax breaks for the 98% (which almost certainly includes YOU and probably every other Rightwing poster on this board) in an attempt to get tax breaks for the top 2%.
That's why I said, Obama is in a COMMANDING position on the issue - COMMANDING.

Ken
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Rational World Park
4,991 posts, read 4,066,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
What commanding positio;nothig has chnaged sicne mid term losses Democrats suffered. its not 2008 anymoew. I think thatwe are goigover the clff after Obam refuses the GOP proposal whil wouldn't include the tax levels he just said he wants. Its upto congress now.
LOL..You've been listening to too much of Paul Ryan's drivel..Keep ignoring the facts on the ground and you'll get trounced again in 2014.
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