All 50 States Sign Petitions To Secede Following Obama's Re-Election (18 year old, how much, party)
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Almost sounds like a procedural grievance I would file at work if I felt something wasn't fair. But my company is not a representative structure like our Federal Government. Doesn't it seem kind of an extreme measure? How about starting with writing a letter signed by unhappy citizens and sending it to the appropriate congressperson?
Extreme? Not really.
Keep in mind this isn't something people are objecting to all of a sudden. This country has been slowly shifting its direction for over a 100 years now. The problem is, its direction is counter to the founding and purpose of our country. Obama isn't some "come out of nowhere" guy who is responsible for all of this upset, we have had various polices eating at the liberty of this country for many many years. All Obama did was stop pretending about it and moved directly and openly to such changes.
That isn't the real problem though. Due to the design of our system, no single president or term of congress can truly make this happen, all they can do is continue to add weight to the direction. The real problem is the people. As the election shows us, they have chosen to push for a form of system that is contrary to the core of our existing one. The people are not allowed to do this as they are constrained to the protections that exist at the basis of our system. For instance, no state can have any form of government other than a Republic. This is required of them to be a part of the US. These forms of protections exist throughout our systems design, to protect the people from rising up in a majority and oppressing the minority.
As for why people just don't write their congressmen? Well, what makes you think they do not? I lived in California for over 30 years and took an active role in such matters. I wrote constantly to our representatives (as did many I knew), explaining to them the problems such policies were leading to, how they were usurping the power of the people and they should strive to protect the liberty of the individual as our founders so often stated was required of good government. I got only typed generic auto replies for my effort.
They aren't listening and since the people are becoming the problem, they keep electing people who serve their individual interests above that of the public. This is the corruption that has been slowly eroding our system (as the founders stated would eventually happen if our people were not vigilant in their duty of restricting government).
An approach such as we are discussing has more public note to it. It isn't a letter that a representative can simply toss in the trash. Everyone sees the vote, everyone sees that there is grievance in the people and because it is a component to which the system must acknowledge, it goes on record and politicians can no longer act ignorant about such grievances, they must respond and make their position known concerning it. That has a much larger effect than that of people randomly sending emails of complaints.
From what I have been reading, it is a position of statement. Even in the link provided by the OP, the person stated this would be a non-binding referendum. That is, it is the state is not required to act on it, it is an advisory means to which the people are informing the state of their objections to the issues at hand.
So it isn't (at least in the case of Texas) an actual demand for secession, rather it is a call out to the state and to the US government as well as the nation as a whole that its policies are violating founding principals, using other methods of government that ours was not intended, nor allowed to implement be it through the power of government or the will of the people. The will of the people can not ignore the requirements and protections of our system. This is why we were never a pure democracy in the first place and so regardless of the demands of the majority, they can not infringe on the liberty of its people.
All this will do is allow a actual representation of the people to voice their concern and by putting a number to it (the results of its votes when the measure if voted on), it shows that people are concerned and have an objection to the violations and policies of the US.
The thing is, if all of these states show a large number of votes to bring a non-binding referendum to success, then it does show there is a major problem in our country and the people are being ignored.
The problem with your premise is that the people signing these petitions are signing all of the petitions. And since they aren't even required to provide their last names or their locations, this isn't even a referendum. It's an exercise in free speech. And virtually an anonymous exercise in free speech, which allows the same people to sign the petitions multiple times. So it isn't an "actual representation" of the people.
Which system would that be? Everything points to their collective heads suffering with sourgrapeitis.
I already explained. Is it that you have little understanding of how our system works? Do you not know what a binding or non-binding referendum is? Maybe you don't? You seemed to not know anything about the history of Jefferson when you tried to imply he was a socialist in another thread you conveniently disappeared in.
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Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
So you presumed violence. It is what is really in your head anyway.
For me to presume such, I would have to conclude that was your intention. I asked you a question, which means I am unsure as to what you were implying, to which you were then free to clarify. The fact that you responded with a reflective accusation is not a normal response of clarification, in fact it shows a defensiveness.
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Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
I make argument for self, not for dummies much less those suffering with mental issues because their party didn't win the election.
The contingency of that comment was based on if you were implying violent action. There was no need to respond to it if your intentions were not such.
The problem with your premise is that the people signing these petitions are signing all of the petitions. And since they aren't even required to provide their last names or their locations, this isn't even a referendum. It's an exercise in free speech. And virtually an anonymous exercise in free speech, which allows the same people to sign the petitions multiple times. So it isn't an "actual representation" of the people.
If that is the case, then such will be remedied when it reaches its verification stage and it will never see political form. /shrug
I already explained. Is it that you have little understanding of how our system works?
I do have a little understanding of how our system is supposed to work. It is why I questioned your ideas.
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Do you not know what a binding or non-binding referendum is? Maybe you don't? You seemed to not know anything about the history of Jefferson when you tried to imply he was a socialist in another thread you conveniently disappeared in.
I didn't say he was a socialist. It was a question, to help those who are too stupid to understand what socialism is and yet are blabber mouths to speak with authority on the subject.
Now, why don't you go ahead and explain to me what a binding or non-binding referendum is, as prescribed by the US Constitution. Can't wait to hear it.
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For me to presume such, I would have to conclude that was your intention.
You couldn't have concluded any other way, but the only one you have in mind.
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I asked you a question, which means I am unsure as to what you were implying, to which you were then free to clarify. The fact that you responded with a reflective accusation is not a normal response of clarification, in fact it shows a defensiveness.
I prefer to attack. You should know better.
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The contingency of that comment was based on if you were implying violent action. There was no need to respond to it if your intentions were not such.
If that is the only way you can imagine. The other one, you dismiss, along with the rest of them (obviously). That opportunity passed on Nov 6.
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Originally Posted by Nomander
If that is the case, then such will be remedied when it reaches its verification stage and it will never see political form. /shrug
Until then, you know it is very much a referendum. It floats your boat.
If that is the case, then such will be remedied when it reaches its verification stage and it will never see political form. /shrug
There is no verification stage. This is not a referendum. Referendum's are initiated at the state level. Not at a website sponsored and maintained by the current Presidential administration as a medium for private citizens to exercise their right to free speech.
Yep, I should, which is why it is obvious to anyone who reads this that you are trolling again, antagonizing, and willing to distort the facts to appeal to your display of narcissistic behavior.
Good luck with that, keep digging that hole deeper and deeper.
There is no verification stage. This is not a referendum. Referendum's are initiated at the state level. Not at a website sponsored and maintained by the current Presidential administration as a medium for private citizens to exercise their right to free speech.
The people pushing for this in Texas are doing just that. They are looking to have the legislature put it to a non-binding referendum. That is why I said all of this will be figured out once it reaches that stage, if it even does.
I wasn't talking about the state wide one.
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